Have your say on the Big Care Debate

dr1209

WHY HAVE A DEBATE??
We have all paid £1000s in NI contributions over the years, these were to pay for our NHS treatment should we become ill or infirm. If car insurers take premiums from us we expect them to pay out if the car is damaged, it's the same principal. If the government won't pay out stop paying the premiums!!!

scotsbob

DerbyPensioner wrote: »

Once again,those who have saved for their old age will pay for those who have spent everything, hidden their savings or just lied.
There appears no hope for savers so the message must be spend , spend, spend.

Spot on there.

We have to pay for other people's kids because the parents want to stay at home and not bother working.

Now the idea is we pay for those, who because they didn't work or bother saving, can't fund their old age.

The likes of you and me pay for ourselves and the scroungers as well.

gb57

I agree that the whole scheme seems like another way to extract money from those who have worked and saved all their lives, while others who have spent the lot (or never worked :mad:)don't have to pay.

However, it is a difficult one, because there is just not enough money in the public purse to fund either care in one's own home, or care in a "home" for all elderly people who need this kind of help.

No-one (including me!) wants to sell their home in order to fund "care", but on the other hand why should the public purse pay for "care" so that someone's adult children can inherit mum's or dad's house? A dilemma.

I think we all believe that we will NEVER go into a "home", and that we will be able to look after ourselves until we just drop dead one day. Sadly, anyone who has watched a parent or relative get old and ill will know that is not always possible. Also, you think that you can look after your mum if she gets ill, but in reality that is not always possible, either.

I don't have any answers, only questions. The current system seems crazy, with different councils charging different amounts, and some people (see posts above) being left with almost no income, as it all goes for "care". Also, "care in your own home" can just mean someone popping in for 15 minutes, which is useless.

I definitely DO NOT agree with everyone (who can pay) being taxed a whopping sum of money at retirement age. Pensions have already taken a huge hit, mainly due to Gordon Brown's disastrous Chancellorship. We are all being urged to save and plan for our pension, so then they are just going to take a lump of it away????:rolleyes:

A question - why is it that you and I won't be eligible for a full state pension unless we have paid NI for X years (39 in my case), but someone who has lived all their life on the dole (oh, sorry, Benefits), suddenly becomes a "pensioner" - with reduced State Pension, but then loads of other "benefits" which bring them up to the same level as the person who has paid in all their life? Sorry, bit off topic there.

The whole Welfare and Benefits system is a complete and utter MESS and needs total reform from top to bottom. When I was young being on the dole was a disgrace, so if you had to be on it you were desperate to be off it and back to work. I think we should return to that - dole and other "benefits" should be a safety net to be used in extremis, not a way of life. That might free up loads of money to help pay for care for the elderly. Perhaps I should talk to Gordon and Darling!!!

lic

Both my inlaws are ill at the moment. MIL has terminal cancer, FIL demetia. Currently both are at home with paid carers, my wife has given up her job to look after them. The Health Authority refuse to grant MIL nursing care so they have to pay £2000 pcm, and with my wife not earning it is hitting the family hard.
But who cares? No one, they just pay lip service. This Governmet. just grab the headlines with spin and no substance.
I will be handing my house over to my daughter before I get too infirm, and will gladly let the state, who I have supported all my working life support me!!!
THE GOVERNMENT ARE JUST THEIVES AND LIARS..

MLisking

lic wrote: »

I will be handing my house over to my daughter before I get too infirm, and will gladly let the state, who I have supported all my working life support me!!!
..

Working in health, this is what a lot of older people choose to do - and end up living in squalor because their relatives are "landlords" to their parents and therefore get a say in the adaptations made to a home - I'm not saying all children / relatives are like this, but it is a regular occurance in my field and its awful that people are left powerless, and vulnerable from all angles.

This is because it is landlords who have to foot some of the bill - and I have seen people who have rented their home their whole lives evicted because the landlord won't contribute (or agree) to simple things (i.e. grab rails, step adaptations).

An example of this - an older gent who is very immobile is in DESPERATE need of a wet shower room (provided and mostly paid for by the council, clients nephew who now owns the property would have to pay around a third of the cost) can't get this because his nephew (who lives in the house next door) REFUSES. This poor man is living in absolute squalor, and there is nothing the council can do. It is heartbreaking. Not all families take care of their elders.

We need total reform, and a more unified funding system - having to deal with tory / labour areas is a battlefield. Older people need more power and control, and a simpler way for them to understand how it all works. It breaks my heart that ultimately, it is the person in need who suffers - not the government, not the carers, and not the workers.

ML.

EdInvestor

lic wrote: »

I will be handing my house over to my daughter before I get too infirm, and will gladly let the state, who I have supported all my working life support me!!!

This will not work.You and you wife need to take action NOW if you want to protect the house from being used to pay for care.There is a way of doing it by switching ownership to tenants in common and leaving each half in trust to the children with lifetime rights for the spouse.See a solicitor.

That way the council cannot get the house.If you give it to your daughter, they can.

Cacran

My mother has dementia and is in a care home. My father has to pay almost £500 a month towards her care but he pays it from her occupational and state pension, which is not so bad. He can afford to keep the house going with his own income. If my dad died first then as I understand it, the half of the property that mum owns would be taken to fund her care as she would then be deemed to have much more capital. I realise there is nothing that can be done to change this, just one of theose things.
Mum is suffering from an illness. She cannot care for her own day to day needs and is not safe to live in an insecure place as she wanders off into the road and things. she is doubly incontinent and is in a sorry state. She needs help with every aspect of her life. If she has a differnet sort of illness which she needed care for, I am under the impression that her care would be covered by the National Health. Because it is an illness in her head, this is not the case. This sort of condition is not just old age, it is serious.

monkeyspanner

Cacran wrote: »

My mother has dementia and is in a care home. My father has to pay almost £500 a month towards her care but he pays it from her occupational and state pension, which is not so bad. He can afford to keep the house going with his own income. If my dad died first then as I understand it, the half of the property that mum owns would be taken to fund her care as she would then be deemed to have much more capital. I realise there is nothing that can be done to change this, just one of theose things.
Mum is suffering from an illness. She cannot care for her own day to day needs and is not safe to live in an insecure place as she wanders off into the road and things. she is doubly incontinent and is in a sorry state. She needs help with every aspect of her life. If she has a differnet sort of illness which she needed care for, I am under the impression that her care would be covered by the National Health. Because it is an illness in her head, this is not the case. This sort of condition is not just old age, it is serious.

Please investigate NHS funded continuing healthcare if your mothers needs are primarily health related then the NHS are responsible for the financing of her care irrespective of her financial resources. In the first instance you should approach the relevant department in your mother's PCT (primary care trust) and request an assessment. There are a number of threads on this board which deal with this topic. Just do a search for CHC or continuing care.

monkeyspanner

petersandyglen wrote: »

Actually, once your savings are down to £13,500? The state pays the full cost of looking after you in a nursing home. What is the point in having extra money to spend per week when everything is provided for you by the nursing home?
Sat. T.V. shopping , doesn't come into it. Peter.

Capital is not the only factor in the assessment for financial support. Perrsonal income is also assessed and all apart from a weekly pocket money allowance of around £20 is taken as the patiants contribution to the cost of a care home. This income can be from a personal or state pension. No-one is fully supported unless you don't count state pension as a right.

chrissie121

shooter wrote: »

This is not just about going into a nursing home but also about the costs of being cared for in your own home. The cost is still extremely High!!!!!!

I wonder how many people know that You could end up being told how much you are allowed to spend on everyday living (food, gas Electric etc) under the guise of allowable expences and then have every penny that is left taken to pay for someone to care for you when you cannot look after yourself any longer due to ill health be that care at home or in a nursing home (when you have even less say in what YOUR money can be spent on).

That is what is happening to my mother. She is now bed bound and cannot do anything for herself and regardless of whether she has this care at home or on a nursing home she has NO option but to pay this.

My mother has chosen to be cared for in her own home. ( she doesn't own it thankfully)

The council tell her that the maximum she will have to pay is £375 Per week. YES that is £375 per week. This is reduce depending on her individual circumstances (woohoo!!!!), but she cannot decide how to spend her own money. she is told how much she can spend on shopping and they take the rest. Council tax however is an allowable expence so that will be paid, but Life insurance,insurance on her boiler washing machine, (God only knows who will have to pay those bills should they breakdown),cable tv, birthday gift/cards etc are not allowable expences.

So when you read this think hard about the things that you payout, Credit card bills, insurances, Cable/Satalite TV etc,that you have been doing all your life and how you will pay for these things should you need to pay for care.

The council charges my mother £16 per hour,(up to a maximum of £375 per week), the carers (who are employed by agencies) get paid approx £6 per hour, surely it doesn't cost £10 per hour, per client, in admin costs.

Isn't this care what we paid our NI for all our working lives?

So heaven help us should we ever be in a position to need this. I for one welcome this consultation and personally advocate the partnership approach BUT that the government should pay between 2/3 and 3/4 of the cost from the NI we have paid all our working lives.


sorry for the rant

Shooter

You are so right shooter. My Mum is my Dads carer and had to stop the twice a day visit from Social Services carers because
1) the 30 min visit was actually 20 mins as the carers had to allow travelling tome to the next client in that time.
2) although you are given approx. times for each visit ,these are aften not adhered to for various reasons. For my Dad,that is not such a problem but someone who lives alone could be kept waiting hours for a toilet visit or a cup of tea etc.
3) You cannot know in advance whebn you need the toilet and fit it to accomadate the carers visit.
4) THE COST....For 2 visits a day and a respite period of 4 hrs a WEEK >um and Dad had to pay over £400.Because Dad has a small company pension in addition to his state pension then they had to pay the full cost. If they lived in one of the neighbouring counties,then care would have been free and in another neighbouring county the cost would have been halved.It is just not fair.
It`s ok for some people to say they would never go into a home because they had relatives,wives,etc Just don`t know for sure what will happen. Some say the trip to Switzerland would be their choice but you have to be well enough to travel and have someone to go with you. Thats putting a big onus on someone.
You work hard and pay your taxes and N.I. and should expect to be given the care package you need.