Have your say on the Big Care Debate

Former_MSE_Wendy

[title=http://images2.moneysavingexpert.com/images/dp/wtd_underline.gif] What's this about?[/title]
The government has written a report about its long term plan to create a 'National Care Service', to cover care and support for adults, and is looking for public opinion on its proposals. The care and support could be either in individuals' own homes or in a residential home (but not the rent or board in the latter's case).

At the moment most care is funded by the individual and anyone with assets over £23,000 is liable for costs, which could include having to sell a house or pay thousands. For example someone with Alzheimer’s could have to pay up to £200,000, although the average cost is around £30,000.

[title=http://images2.moneysavingexpert.com/images/dp/wtd_underline.gif] What are the proposed funding options?[/title]
The government report lists three options into how care should be paid for so that it’s fair for everyone. The 3 proposals are:

Partnership: The responsibility for paying for care would be shared between the Government and the person who has care needs. The Government provides between a quarter and a third of the cost of care, more for people on a low income.

Insurance: The same as partnership but the Government could help people to prepare to meet the costs that they would have to pay for themselves, through an insurance-based approach. As well as receiving between a third and a quarter of the cost of care, the Government would make it easier for people to take out insurance to cover care costs. It is estimated that the cost of insurance could be around £20,000 to £25,000.

Comprehensive: Everyone who can afford it would pay into a state insurance scheme [at around the age of 65] meaning everyone who needs care will receive it free. It is estimated that the cost of being in the system could be between £17,000 and £20,000.

[title=http://images2.moneysavingexpert.com/images/dp/wtd_underline.gif] How do you have your say?[/title]
Full details can be found on the www.careandsupport.direct.gov.uk website but you can reply until 13 November via:

Post: Writing to Green Paper Team, Room 149, Richmond House, 79 Whitehall, London SW1A 2NS

Online: Leave a comment on the Careandsuport site or the CareandSupport Facebook group

Email: [EMAIL="careandsupport@dh.gsi.gov.uk"]careandsupport@dh.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

Leaflets: Some GP surgeries, pharmacies and other outlets have a leaflet with specific consultation questions which can be sent back to a freepost address. Let us know if you’ve spotted one of these.

We will try and submit forum posts to the department too, it should be possible as we were asked to help publicise it (and did it as we believe its a good debate) but it cannot be guaranteed.

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ceridwen

My thought on this is that the goalposts seem to be shifting every time one takes a look:

- first: it was a certain amount of money (£12,000 I think?) and on a voluntary basis probably and only for one's own needs

- then it seemed to move onto a rather higher figure and paying into a communal fund and maybe it should be mandatory and maybe, even then, it wouldnt cover all the costs.

No easy answers as the phrase goes. I can only speak for my own viewpoint - which boils down to: I'm NOT handing over any of MY money to anything just IN CASE I ever had to go into a nursing home. What would be the point? - as I'm not going to go into a nursing home ever anyway.

I simply dont believe that most people would ever need to go into nursing homes - and, even for those that do, I believe many would choose not to do so. I'd honestly rather carry on in my own home totally regardless of my ability (or otherwise) to do so. I will never ever consider going into a nursing home - NO MATTER WHAT - so what would be the point of paying in case I did??? I wont - end of....It might mean I had struggled on to the extent that I fell downstairs and broke a leg or even my back or something - but that is MY choice...at least I would have stayed in my own home throughout.

I am simply NOT going to hand over MY money for other people to make the choice (however voluntarily or otherwise) to go into a nursing home. I would simply regard this as being just another tax.....ho hum....yawn....not AGAIN....
There does have to come a time when one calls a halt on JUST how much money can be taken out of the average low-paid person in the street as taxes to fund other peoples choices...

Errata

Wendy could you post this on other relavent boards - Disability and Dosh etc - as the Green Paper on a National Care Service covers working age adults as well as older people.

scotsbob

ceridwen wrote: »

I would simply regard this as being just another tax.......

Exactly right.

I'm joining you on this one mate. No way will I be agreeing to what is a tax in everything but name.

I'll be off to Switzerland for the injection before I go into a nursing home here.

shooter

This is not just about going into a nursing home but also about the costs of being cared for in your own home. The cost is still extremely High!!!!!!

I wonder how many people know that You could end up being told how much you are allowed to spend on everyday living (food, gas Electric etc) under the guise of allowable expences and then have every penny that is left taken to pay for someone to care for you when you cannot look after yourself any longer due to ill health be that care at home or in a nursing home (when you have even less say in what YOUR money can be spent on).

That is what is happening to my mother. She is now bed bound and cannot do anything for herself and regardless of whether she has this care at home or on a nursing home she has NO option but to pay this.

My mother has chosen to be cared for in her own home. ( she doesn't own it thankfully)

The council tell her that the maximum she will have to pay is £375 Per week. YES that is £375 per week. This is reduce depending on her individual circumstances (woohoo!!!!), but she cannot decide how to spend her own money. she is told how much she can spend on shopping and they take the rest. Council tax however is an allowable expence so that will be paid, but Life insurance,insurance on her boiler washing machine, (God only knows who will have to pay those bills should they breakdown),cable tv, birthday gift/cards etc are not allowable expences.

So when you read this think hard about the things that you payout, Credit card bills, insurances, Cable/Satalite TV etc,that you have been doing all your life and how you will pay for these things should you need to pay for care.

The council charges my mother £16 per hour,(up to a maximum of £375 per week), the carers (who are employed by agencies) get paid approx £6 per hour, surely it doesn't cost £10 per hour, per client, in admin costs.

Isn't this care what we paid our NI for all our working lives?

So heaven help us should we ever be in a position to need this. I for one welcome this consultation and personally advocate the partnership approach BUT that the government should pay between 2/3 and 3/4 of the cost from the NI we have paid all our working lives.


sorry for the rant

Shooter

petersandyglen

Actually, once your savings are down to £13,500? The state pays the full cost of looking after you in a nursing home. What is the point in having extra money to spend per week when everything is provided for you by the nursing home?
Sat. T.V. shopping , doesn't come into it. Peter.

weanie

I am told by others that the situation in France is such that individuals [with care needing relatives] have often grouped together to provide care to these people.

One of the targets of national and local government seems to be to orchestrate 'direct payments' in order to assist individuals needing care and their families to arrange for a more tailored care to be give to those who may need regular help in the home. I am in favour of this.

Whilst in relative good health, it is easy to take the stand that we will never consider moving into a care home or indeed to have anyone coming into our homes at a cost to us and providing care. Many people currently in care homes or indeed having help in their own homes may have felt exactly the same. Very sadly circumstances involving bereavement, physical and mental ill health and other issues may have forced the acceptance of care upon them. This could well also be the case for many of us.

The internet allows so many people to communicate and to share problems. I wonder if there would be a useful way for people who are GIVING care to relatives to share not only their experiences but to also pool resources and share the duties of care in a practical way to allow carers to have more time off and holidays - Perhaps an internet site/business waiting for someone to set up????!!

DerbyPensioner

Once again,those who have saved for their old age will pay for those who have spent everything, hidden their savings or just lied.
There appears no hope for savers so the message must be spend , spend, spend.

shooter

Hi Petersandyglen

petersandyglen wrote: »

Actually, once your savings are down to £13,500? The state pays the full cost of looking after you in a nursing home. can you point me to any literature that confirms this? We have looked into my mother going into a care (Nursing) home and the rules are the same as having care at home. If your income is above what the government says you need to live on (minimum amount allowed) then you are required to pay! What is the point in having extra money to spend per week when everything is provided for you by the nursing home? The Fact that you have spent your entire life working hard to earn your money, looking to the future and investing in private pentions only to have it all taken to pay for your care needs even though throughout your working life you had paid NI and not used it due to sickness or unemployment. you obviously don't want or need a say in how YOUR money is spent.
Sat. T.V. shopping , doesn't come into it.
Ok so you don't need to pay fo the Items mentioned but there are still things that you do need or want that you wouldn't have the money to pay for as you income would be used to pay for your care
Peter.

shooter

shooter

weanie wrote: »

I am told by others that the situation in France is such that individuals [with care needing relatives] have often grouped together to provide care to these people.

Hi Weanie

That is all very well but families are not always able to do this as we all have to work you support ourselves and or not medical able to do this.

My mother needs someone (2 people due to H&S rules and regs) 4+ times a day and her needs are extensive!

Shooter

Errata

The internet allows so many people to communicate and to share problems. I wonder if there would be a useful way for people who are GIVING care to relatives to share not only their experiences but to also pool resources and share the duties of care in a practical way to allow carers to have more time off and holidays - Perhaps an internet site/business waiting for someone to set up????!!

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