Major Changes To Forum Policy

superscaper

aliEnRIK wrote: »

Abuse on the techie forums ~
Ive seen people posting on the techie forums who clearly dont know what theyre talking about. I recall one person who really was only trying to help but the 'advice' they gave was......dangerous! Anyone following it could have killed their computer. I must have said 3 or 4 times that 'this' wasnt right and 'that' wasnt right but they kept on posting thinking they were helping regardless.
Someone else ended up telling them directly (Which could be construed as 'abuse') which got their back up and they left never to be seen again.
Its a shame as they didnt mean any harm......only.....they WERE doing harm!

Of course this is only 'minor' abuse, but its abuse all the same (But was needed really)

I know what you mean but I presume every case will have to be judged on its' own merits. So long as it doesn't deveolve into slanging matches and abuse, it should become obvious if people are putting across "factually" the same opinion that something is wrong or even dangerous.

Doozergirl

I think the changes are all positive and fair. They don't look like difficult decisions to make - they look like changes that would be accepted on the whole if they had always been in place.

With regard to newbie posts, I agree with many posters that the newbie bubble should be extended beyond 3 posts and into double digit figures to allow them to settle and get a feel for the boards. I have quite a post count here and that has to be due to the friendliness of the boards when I joined as even I am still afraid sometimes of posting on different forums!

I also agree with another poster that yellow cards at least should have some kind of time limit on them as people do sometimes get themselves into the occassional bit of silliness. However, I know that in the past that I have repeatedly reported some posters for unacceptable posting and yet they continue to post and frankly, have attracted other unruly posters and subsequently been allowed to let a board deteriorate into chaos as a result. The sooner the opportunity for that stops, the better.

Removing the thanks from non moneysaving threads as well I think is fair. I like the fly lady thread on Old Style and dip in occassionally but you only need to tell someone you managed to make the bed and you're loaded up with 40 thank yous which does undermine the idea of the thanks count. I can understand now though that people are perhaps using the button as a marker.

And you should receive many, many thanks for your OP Martin (as you already have!) as contrary to another poster, I understand the moneysaving value of these changes is to encourage everyone to feel welcome and comfortable to share in and hopefully contribute to this fabulous site!

Question: Will the "thanks" counts already received on the non money saving boards remain or will they be removed from our profiles?

reheat

Watched BBC2's programme "The Death of Respect" a bit earlier on, pretty much all of which I agree with. One of the things I like about MSE is most people's respect for each other's basic rights, regardless of whether they agree or not. The new forum guidelines should strengthen that, so I'm all for it. I think it also says much about Martin that MSE has such a good forum. I initially feared things might get a bit prudish, but don't have to look at too many posts in this thread to realise no fear of that :rolleyes:

Ifts

These new changes if implemented correctly will be very helpful to all MSE users. No one likes bullies, personally I think if you have not got nothing good to say then don't say nothing at all.

Not sure about the discounting posts and thanks counts in discussion boards, its nice to thank someone for their views/advice considering a complete stranger is willing to help you and its equally nice to be appreciated for your input by helping others.

I know you cant please all the people all the time but its a shame when you have to punish the majority of MSE users who are very helpful for the actions of the minority who are rude and argumentative.

Sometimes people need to remember whether your helping someone save a penny or a pound its all relevant to the OP regardless of your own post/thank count or net worth. "Never look down on someone unless your helping them up" comes to mind.

Thank You to all fellow MSE users for your helpful posts, regardless of which boards you post on, keep up the good work

alanq

I suggest that MSE communications avoid abbreviations that some/many/most members will not understand. They should be written in full the first time they are used in a discussion. PPR was not explained until the end of the post. What does AE mean?

LydiaJ

Doozergirl wrote: »

Removing the thanks from non moneysaving threads as well I think is fair. I like the fly lady thread on Old Style and dip in occassionally but you only need to tell someone you managed to make the bed and you're loaded up with 40 thank yous which does undermine the idea of the thanks count. I can understand now though that people are perhaps using the button as a marker.

But Martin is only suggesting not counting posts from the Arms and possibly the house prices debate board. I don't go in the Arms much myself, so can't comment on that, but I do find the house price debate board very helpful. I've learnt a lot from it that will probably end up saving me loads in the long term. I'd be sorry to see posts and thanks there not counted.

I don't think it makes sense to distinguish between one board and another like that. There are wise and helpful posts on the debate boards, and inane chatter on the serious money boards, and since it's totally unrealistic to assess each post to see whether it's deserving of having its thanks counted, I would support just continuing to count all of them.

If things are going to appear for newbies to see when they try to post things and/or start new threads, I'd like them to include a very brief thing drawing newbies' attention to the thanks system. I remember when I first joined I started a thread (on the techie forum I think). I asked a question and got several helpful answers and politely wrote brief posts thanking each poster. I felt really dim when I discovered that wasn't what I was supposed to have done!

jenniewb

MSE_Martin wrote: »

1. MSE team on the forums.

A. We're going to see if we can instute a 'newbie bubble' so newbies first three posts will have a brightly designed reminder than they're a newbie and to cut them some slack (it will disappear once they post more). Hopefully for most of our posters this wee reminder will help - I want a "be especially nice to newbies rule"

This sounds like a nice idea- like this

MSE_Martin wrote: »

B. We will also be asking people to report those being abusive to newbies (and yes we're aware some may be spammers, trolls or AEs, but then they should simply be reported to abuse or spam button pressed and not responded to anyway)

Ooops- I have been responding to spammers by first reporting, then next writing "spam" so no one goes and clicks- was I not supposed to do this? I thought I was being helpful!- Can someone correct me on this? I always report, but sometimes respond to say its spam- is this/not OK?

MSE_Martin wrote: »

C. Also we're going to make it that if a newbie is starting a new thread for the first time, a note pops up asking if they've checked whether the subject already exists and where to get info - this will be tailed by the board.

Like this- but can newbies also get a message on abuse? been 'abused' by newbies before, mainly swearing which can or cannot be taken either way, but I don't take it kindly!

MSE_Martin wrote: »

D. For long threads we're also considering asking regular forumites to write a summary of the regular Q&As (as repeatedly asking things answered earlier in the thread is an obvious annoyance - though of course in long threads its understanable ) which they can then PM a board guide to ask them to insert in the first post for clairty (at the board guides discretion - we will also ensure it is not seen as an 'official MSE' answer.

VERY GOOD IDEA!:T

MSE_Martin wrote: »

For that we're considering introducing a new system, to give people a legitimate expectation of cautions.... involving yellow card (official caution), red card (two week suspension) and black card (PPR). Obviously two yellow cards gets you a red etc (all barring the black will be anonymous)

Like this too!

MSE_Martin wrote: »

So we are considering discounting posts and thanks in the discussion baords from the post and thanks count - to make them a more reflective indicator. (obviously if people start posting nonesense in other boards just to build post count then they'll be deleted - red carded etc)

And this I like too!

MSE_Martin wrote: »

I love the forum, think 99% of the users are helpful or having fun, and think this resource is now unparalleled in the UK money world for the size, depth and quality of the community.

Martin- your boards have saved me in so many ways- I truely owe you -big time!

ebin33zer

Wahay new bubble for me and its free

Good work on the proposed changes :gr8
Generally on forums a lot of folk forget that even still, some folk are relatively new to doing anything online and they also forget what it was like back when they started using forums. (i know when i started back in the days it was flamewars galore) :O

Fortunately we are all individuals and as such all have different opinions as to whats right and whats not. Hence the need for guidance on occassion, unfortunately this falls onto moderators shoulders. A totally thankless job but essential to the success of most public forums.

FWIW i am part of the admin team on a very successfull gaming site and recently we revamped things a bit by updating the board rules and adding a few new sub forums. One of which was specific to new members it contains ALL the rules regulations etc a list of hyperlinks to various areas of the board as well as a list of all the admin & moderators and what they are responsible for, so even the newest of members knows where to look for anything and if they cant find it who to ask about it.

Also ALL new members are sent a personal greet from one of the admin so they have at least one name they can associate with straight away. This makes them more relaxed and less nervous when making their first post, as does the fact that they are all advised in their welcome post that "there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers".

The first time a new member logs into their account they are presented with a "force read thread" on conduct which they must agree to before full access is granted.

As policy ANYONE flaming or bullying new members on our site no matter who they are takes a spell in the sin bin after all new blood is what keeps things going and fresh eyes can stop things stagnating.

Keep up the good work folks :T and hats off to all the admin / mods in here, everyone appreciates all the hard work you put in :A

tealady

Hi. I think these are great ideas. As one who has posted a stupid question myself, (and got a polite reply) I have stayed with this wonderful site. Had the response been rude I think I would have left (and I consider myself to have a thick skin!).
The change of rules are a good idea, especially the cards, as others have said we can all say things we regret and a spell in the "sin bin" could help things cool down.

ThinkingOfLinking

jojo2004 wrote: »

I think some of the ideas are great - whilst I've often laughed myself senseless at some of the 'off-topic' discussions, I know I've been guilty of being mean to people on various boards (in my defence, I don't *think* I usually throw the first stone, but that's not really an excuse), as emotions run high - particularly for those who are scared/in serious financial trouble.

There's nothing worse than someone posting 'help I owe x amount and can't pay', to see the next six posts read 'well, aren't you dumb for getting in that mess'.

A suggestion - and forgive me if this has already been suggested elsewhere :rolleyes: - how about a Newbies board? A place with a round-up of really common questions on all subjects, and links to the most current threads/boards? I know there are such things for various subjects, such as the fab new 'Deals' button etc, but a more general one might stop some of the flaming? Kind of an uber-Sticky?

Great ideas Martin. As ever. :money:

These are some really great points. I completely agree with you.

As for the poster who commented a few days ago on those of us who post 60 or more times a month....To be honest, many of us are not working for one reason or another. So what? Post count is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. And it's easy to clock up posts in the competitions and DT forums. But I don't think anyone should be judging others for their post counts, whether they have 1 or 100,000.

I also don't place loads of emphasis on peoples# Thanks counts. They're nice to have but the way I see it, a newbie who signed up today could be more useful than some old timer with 100,000 thanks because they could be, say, a financial advisor who just got made redundant, or retired, and just hasn't had time to help us/show us their mettle yet.;) Actions speak louder than words, and I base my opinions of posters on what they post, not how many times they post or are thanked.;)