Failed ESA Medical!!

cit_k

ESA wrote: »

There are millions of people on benefit and relatively few of them post on here. If people dont have the courage to fight a wrong decision them that, frankly, is their problem and not anyone elses.

Not really, if the DWP (via ATOS) make a wrong decision, and a person who is entitled to benefits is turned down, and marked as fit for work, then if that person is genuinely, for example, mentally ill - they may not have the strength left to fight, or think it pointless. The DWP even admitted in previous pilot study results that its known this sort of thing happens, yet they have nothing in place.

Its similar to kicking someone in the head over and over again, and blaming the victim that its their fault they didnt get up and fight, even though they were unconcious at the time.

People are not always fit enough to fight, or give up the will to fight - a system that deliberately could not give a stuff if someone genuinely ill, is too ill to appeal is, well words fail me on how inhuman it is.

NASA_2

cit_k wrote: »

Not really, if the DWP (via ATOS) make a wrong decision, and a person who is entitled to benefits is turned down, and marked as fit for work, then if that person is genuinely, for example, mentally ill - they may not have the strength left to fight, or think it pointless. The DWP even admitted in previous pilot study results that its known this sort of thing happens, yet they have nothing in place.

Its similar to kicking someone in the head over and over again, and blaming the victim that its their fault they didnt get up and fight, even though they were unconcious at the time.

People are not always fit enough to fight, or give up the will to fight - a system that deliberately could not give a stuff if someone genuinely ill, is too ill to appeal is, well words fail me on how inhuman it is.

People have to take some level of responsibility for themselves - its easy to make everyone look helpless in order to make the system look inhuman.

The system is fair to the majority - and its heart warming to know that ESA is reducing the amount of long-term claimants while giving more support to those who are genuinely sick.

cit_k

ESA wrote: »

People have to take some level of responsibility for themselves - its easy to make everyone look helpless in order to make the system look inhuman.

The system is fair to the majority - and its heart warming to know that ESA is reducing the amount of long-term claimants while giving more support to those who are genuinely sick.

If you work for ESA in some way, then thats scary - how can the ESA system be providing more support to those that are genuinely sick if a person working with the ESA system does not even grasp the fundamental basics of many mental illnesses?

People with a serious mental illness may not be able to "some level of responsibility for themselves " and appeal - as they are seriously mentally ILL. Or they may have levels of anxiety that are so high it stops them from appealing - another genuine mental illness that can be quite disabling.

If the ESA system cant understand things like that, what hope do they have of providing support tailored to a client with mental health issues?

NASA_2

I process benefits - its not important for me to understand even the basics of any illness.

People with a serious mental illness, if genuinely ill, will pass the medical. The small amount that dont have the right to appeal either doing it themselves or having some advocacy group doing it on their behalf. Those that have absolutely no-one to help them and fall through the cracks, well really, what are we meant to do, hunt these people down and throw money at them?

Your worrying yourself needlessly if your bothered that I dont know the ins and outs of every illness. My job is simply to move information from paper to payment system. It makes no difference to my job if someone has a cold or has AIDS apart from the fact that a different code is used on the computer system.

I only know my own experiences with mental illness - I'm not paid to know about other peoples.

robpw2

ESA wrote: »

There are millions of people on benefit and relatively few of them post on here. If people dont have the courage to fight a wrong decision them that, frankly, is their problem and not anyone elses.

BTW, who is to say that the person that gave 21 was not the person that was wrong, perhaps the 0 was right?

I'm not arguing this particular case though as none of us know enough to comment authoratively on it.

sometimes its hard enough fighting illness without having outside stresses
and not having the courage to fight a wrong descison isnt nesscary there problem either maybe for example they are so physically and mentally drained they are simply unable to see the point of fighting or have the knowhow of how to appeal

it doesnt mean that because someone passes you fit to work that you are going to find work ,,, so all that the medical does is remove benefit entitlement it doesnt offer them any support etc

cit_k

Ok fair enough,didnt know you were not one of the ESA advisors, so your not dealing face to face with claimaints.

Im still trying to figure out if the DWP is covered by the corporate manslaughter act, as its only a matter of time (if its not already happened) before one of those people 'that fall through the cracks' takes their own life, and its directly attributable to a decision by the dwp... The DWP by not having anything at all in place, despite knowing the dangers are leaving themselves vunerable to a prosecution under the act (unless they are exempted).
Not sure if the buck would stop at the DWP or if it would go right up to the secretary of state though, not sure who exactly would be jailed in those circumstances....

With more people being kicked off, the problem of people falling through the cracks is going to skyrocket....

NASA_2

robpw2 wrote: »

sometimes its hard enough fighting illness without having outside stresses
and not having the courage to fight a wrong descison isnt nesscary there problem either maybe for example they are so physically and mentally drained they are simply unable to see the point of fighting or have the knowhow of how to appeal

it doesnt mean that because someone passes you fit to work that you are going to find work ,,, so all that the medical does is remove benefit entitlement it doesnt offer them any support etc

So what is the solution - have a system so open to abuse that everyone can claim benefits for years with little responsibility on them to either prove that they are sick or that they are unable to do any sort of work?

robpw2

cit_k wrote: »

Ok fair enough,didnt know you were not one of the ESA advisors, so your not dealing face to face with claimaints.

Im still trying to figure out if the DWP is covered by the corporate manslaughter act, as its only a matter of time (if its not already happened) before one of those people 'that fall through the cracks' takes their own life, and its directly attributable to a decision by the dwp... The DWP by not having anything at all in place, despite knowing the dangers are leaving themselves vunerable to a prosecution under the act (unless they are exempted).
Not sure if the buck would stop at the DWP or if it would go right up to the secretary of state though, not sure who exactly would be jailed in those circumstances....

With more people being kicked off, the problem of people falling through the cracks is going to skyrocket....

no one would get jailed the government will protect themselves from such things

if you sue the secretary of state your suing the position not the actual person

cit_k

ESA wrote: »

So what is the solution - have a system so open to abuse that everyone can claim benefits for years with little responsibility on them to either prove that they are sick or that they are unable to do any sort of work?

One solution - Dump ATOS and LIMA, hire specialist doctors, not nurses who have been on a few day long course, or retired doctors, or people who could not hack normal medical work. Get in real pro's - do decent medicals that investigate the evidence properly, not rely on some slightly trained person using some incredibly bad computer software.

robpw2

ESA wrote: »

So what is the solution - have a system so open to abuse that everyone can claim benefits for years with little responsibility on them to either prove that they are sick or that they are unable to do any sort of work?

no im just saying that these doctors are paid to get people of benefits and they the questions they ask are one size fits all questions and if the examiner is not listening to the "ill person" its an even bigger mockery their target is to get people of benefits

what about all those claiming job seekers allowance who have been on longer than a year for example we still have no system to get those people into work


its easier to hit those whom they know wil not nesscary have the will power or knowledge to fight back and as i say they do not care about the individual just that they can get their figures down