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Dog fowling fine

2

Comments

  • AdrianW2
    AdrianW2 Posts: 416 Forumite
    Quentin wrote: »
    An appeal aagainst the ticket was suggested. At least that was relevant pracxtical advice!

    I'm not saying that it was bad advice, but it's advice that might end up costing a day off work and £1000 + victim tax + costs and the OP's mother should be forewarned. For most people the day off work to go to court will cost more than the fixed penalty.
  • bargepole
    bargepole Posts: 3,238 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    *Vikki* wrote: »
    Dog fowling fine
    *Vikki* wrote: »
    ... and they have no proof just there colleague is this enough to still fine her £75!!??
    *Vikki* wrote: »
    Need to loose 2 stone
    Need to gain: A basic grasp of written English!

    I have been providing assistance, including Lay Representation at Court hearings (current score: won 57, lost 14), to defendants in parking cases for over 5 years. I have an LLB (Hons) degree, and have a Graduate Diploma in Civil Litigation from CILEx. However, any advice given on these forums by me is NOT formal legal advice, and I accept no liability for its accuracy.
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
    Unnecessary and just poor!

    OP, take no notice.
  • Volcano
    Volcano Posts: 1,116 Forumite
    *Vikki* wrote: »
    Couldnt find where else to put this?

    If a council worker claims my mums dog pooed and she didnt pick it up (totally wrong!!) and they have no proof just there colleague is this enough to still fine her £75!!??

    Are you saying they have 2 witnesses to the alleged incident? If so, she's going to have trouble trying to explain to a court how 2 people (who's job it is to do such things) believe that she didn't clear up after her dog. If it was just the one person, then she might have more chance: assuming she doesn't mind running the risk of a larger fine (which would be nearer £200 rather than the maximum £1000) then she could appeal and state adamantly that it wasn't her dog. An individual council official is far less likely to be confident about their position (if there is a bit of doubt in their mind) and is less likely to want to take it to court.

    More info on the law here:

    http://www.rochford.gov.uk/pdf/health_dogs_control_land.pdf
    AdrianW2 wrote:
    in the case of someone without power of arrest, don't tell them your name.

    They don't have the power of arrest, though it is an offence not to give your name to 'authorised officers' who read you the "It is an offence, when questioned not to say something you later rely on in court......" etc.
    chnelomi wrote:
    you must have at least 2 per dog here.

    OH was stopped when out with our dogs 2 Akita's and accused of not bagging and asked to show he had the minimum of 4 bags per the code that we were not aware of at the time,

    There's not a hope in hell the council could fine you for this. Certainly a lack of bags could be used to reinforce their case that you didn't pick up after you, but they can't search you for bags anyway!
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
    AdrianW2 wrote: »
    I'm not saying that it was bad advice, but it's advice that might end up costing a day off work and £1000 + victim tax + costs and the OP's mother should be forewarned. For most people the day off work to go to court will cost more than the fixed penalty.

    You could have easily forewarned the OP without your "naive" comment aimed at me.

    There is a long way to go between appealing a ticket and ending up with a £1000 fine! Talk about scaremongering!
  • AdrianW2
    AdrianW2 Posts: 416 Forumite
    Volcano wrote: »
    They don't have the power of arrest, though it is an offence not to give your name to 'authorised officers' who read you the "It is an offence, when questioned not to say something you later rely on in court......" etc.

    Any chance of a source for that? I'm not very familiar with rules for other agencies, but I though the only legislation requiring name and address was for drivers and the power of arrest to verify name and address under PACE.

    It certainly isn't an offence not to say something that you later reply on on court, indeed the best advice is usually to "no comment" all the way through interview.
  • mrcow
    mrcow Posts: 15,170 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    *Vikki* wrote: »
    Couldnt find where else to put this?

    If a council worker claims my mums dog pooed and she didnt pick it up (totally wrong!!) and they have no proof just there colleague is this enough to still fine her £75!!??

    So who did it then, your Mum, or her dog?

    Dog fouling is revolting. It's selfish, anti-social and ruins the street for everyone else.
    "One day I realised that when you are lying in your grave, it's no good saying, "I was too shy, too frightened."
    Because by then you've blown your chances. That's it."
  • AdrianW2
    AdrianW2 Posts: 416 Forumite
    Quentin wrote: »
    You could have easily forewarned the OP without your "naive" comment aimed at me.

    You said "No-one has to pay a fine if they are innocent!". I was not/am not trying to offend but I stand by my original comment, it doesn't work like that in the real world.

    Turning back to the original case. The fixed penalty is an alternative to prosecution. It isn't a "fine" as such. Perhaps it is easier to think of it as a double glazing salesman's special offer - if you pay up within 14 days then you'll get a super discount on the sentence.

    Anyone is free to reject a FPN and have their day in court, so there is nothing to be gained by appealing a FPN. Now it may be possible to persuade the council to reconsider the prosecution but that's a whole different issue.
  • Volcano
    Volcano Posts: 1,116 Forumite
    AdrianW2 wrote: »
    Any chance of a source for that?

    Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005, Part 6, Chapter 1, Section 61:

    "Section 61 provides an authorised officer of a primary or secondary authority with the power to require the name and address of a person if the officer proposes to give him a fixed penalty notice, and makes it an offence for that person either to fail to give that information or to give false or inaccurate information."

    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2005/en/05en16-b.htm
    It certainly isn't an offence not to say something that you later reply on on court,

    Yes, that was my jumbled explanation for 'cautioning' as I couldn't remember the correct terminology.
    indeed the best advice is usually to "no comment" all the way through interview.

    An FPN is at the officers discretion. If they think you're guilty and not willing to admit your guilt, they'll withdraw the FPN 'offer' and just go straight ahead with a prosecution.

    FPNs work on the assumption that the truely guilty will take the £75 bail-out rather than risk a bigger one in court. No, this doesn't help those who are innocent and get a FPN, but then they really do tend to be in the minority. Council officers don't enjoy making an a$$ of themselves in court and so don't issue FPNs unless they're pretty sure.
  • Volcano
    Volcano Posts: 1,116 Forumite
    mrcow wrote: »
    So who did it then, your Mum, or her dog?

    Let's hope this isn't the OP's local magistrate surfing the net between cases........
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