CISAS / OFCOM – Any good? / Do i hope in hell?

thedalmeny

Basically over the last 2-3 weeks i’ve been in argument with T-Mobile regarding the new T&C change with EU roaming charges going up..

Cut a long story short – I have stated the points i'm arguing a cancelation of contract below. POINT 1 / POINT 2

Anyway they’ve refused to give me a DEADLOCK letter. So 10 weeks to wait till i can contact CISAS.

Anyone used them before, do they actually get the job done. As i’ve never used them before.

Also what are OFCOM like, do they take action aswell? Do i have a chance with this?

POINT 1:

I was informed due to 7.1.2 of your terms of conditions, you’re able to increase your ‘Additional Services’ without the 2.11.2 of your terms and conditions applying.
However within your terms and condition it clearly states it does apply:

2.12.6. We can increase the Charge for that Additional Service
as set out in point 7.1.4. If that happens, points 7.2.3.2
and 7.2.3.3 will also apply to You, so that You can give
Us notice to terminate that Additional Service with a
minimum period without paying the Charge described
in point 2.12.5 above. However, if You also give Us
notice to terminate this entire Agreement as described
in point 7.2.1, then You may have to pay a Cancellation
Charge; and

So the above relates to back to a term and condition that points an increase in price plan charge:

7.1.4. We can increase any Price Plan Charge. We will give You
Written Notice 30 days before We do so. The change will
then apply to You once that notice has run out.

2.12.6 also points towards the below terms and conditions:

7.2.3. A Cancellation Charge won’t apply if You are within the
Minimum Term and:
7.2.3.2. You are a Consumer and the change that We
gave You Written Notice of in point 2.11.2 or
7.1.4 above is of material detriment to You and
You give Us notice to immediately cancel this
Agreement before the change takes effect; or
7.2.3.3. The change that We gave You Written Notice of in
point 7.1.4 is an increase in Your Price Plan
Charge (as a percentage) higher than any
increase in the Retail Price Index (also calculated
as a percentage) for the 12 months before the
month in which We send You Written Notice and
You give Us notice to immediately cancel this
Agreement before the change takes effect.

Which point back to 2.11.2 and actually refer to my right to cancel without cancellation charge within the minimum term.

2.11.2. If You are a Consumer and the change is of material
detriment to You, We will send You Written Notice 30 days
before the terms and conditions are due to change. The
new terms and conditions will apply to You once that
notice has run out, unless You terminate Your Agreement
with Us within that notice period. If You do this You won’t
have to pay any Cancellation Charge that would otherwise

Obviously i feel the increase of the roaming charges is of material detriment to me. As i frequent go abroad. Here it is again as part of EU law.

In accordance with EU law, i do not agree to the change of this term and condition – so should be able to cancel my contract without cancelation charge. As stated below:

Based on DIRECTIVE 2002/22/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 7 March 2002 on universal service and users' rights relating to electronic communications networks and
services (Universal Service Directive)
Article 20.4:
Subscribers shall have a right to withdraw from their
contracts without penalty upon notice of proposed
modifications in the contractual conditions. Subscribers shall
be given adequate notice, not shorter than one month, ahead of any
such modifications and shall be informed at the same
time of their right to withdraw, without penalty, from such
contracts, if they do not accept the new conditions.


POINT 2:


I was notified by text message regarding the changes in roaming charges on the 30th June 2009:

“From 1st July we’re making changes to our roaming charges & on 1st of Aug we’re changing out terms & conditions to make things even clearer. t-mobile.co.uk/EUTerms”

If you goto t-mobile.co.uk/EUTerms and click the ‘Roaming Prices Changes’ it says:

“This page outlines new EU roaming rates that will apply for all pay monthly, U-Fix and business customers (excluding corporates) from 29 June 2009.”

Also within the price breakdown it states: “Cost from 29 June 2009 (inv VAT)”

As per your terms and conditions relating to change or increases in ‘Additional Services’, below is the instance:

T&C 7.1.2:
“We can suspend, change, increase the price of or
withdraw part or all of the Additional Services on giving
active users of the Additional Service a reasonable period
of Written Notice. The change will then apply to You once
that notice has run out.
7.1.3. We can suspend, change or withdraw”

As it points out, you must give me “a reasonable period of Written Notice”

Not only was i not given any notice of the price changes, with the text message being sent to me on the 30th of June 2009 and the price changes taking effect on the 29th of June 2009. But the text message itself was also misleading by suggesting the increase to roaming charges were to take place on the 1st of July 2009.

This has results in T-Mobile violating the terms and conditions set out in the contract.

I have kept the text message on my phone as evidence to the fact.

Not sure how they afford themselves the right to cancel my agreement if i break any important T&C and not give me the same right.

Our immediate termination rights

7.3.1. We can terminate this Agreement immediately and You
must pay Us everything that You owe, including any
Cancellation Charge, if any of the following happen:
7.3.1.1. You break an important condition of this
Agreement or a number of less important
conditions;

Keeop

Hi,

Can't say if you'll win or lose but certainly give CISAS a go as I have used them and found them very useful indeed. I ended up winning my case but then it was pretty much in the bag anyway so was more a case of sorting out the correct level of compensation. What you'll probably find as well is that as soon as you register your case, T-Mobile will get in contact with you to try and resolve it as they'll be notified by CISAS and will probably rather sort it out amicably without their use.

Bottom line - go for it!

Cheers.
Keeop

Intasun32

thedalmeny wrote: »

Basically over the last 2-3 weeks i’ve been in argument with T-Mobile regarding the new T&C change with EU roaming charges going up..

Cut a long story short – I have stated the points i'm arguing a cancelation of contract below. POINT 1 / POINT 2

Anyway they’ve refused to give me a DEADLOCK letter. So 10 weeks to wait till i can contact CISAS.

Anyone used them before, do they actually get the job done. As i’ve never used them before.

Also what are OFCOM like, do they take action aswell? Do i have a chance with this?

OFCOM will not listen to your complaint, so don't waste your time.

AS set down by CISAS you have to have been in despute for 12 weeks or as you have said obtain a deadlock letter, which TM will not do. Make the complaint because unlike OTELO, CISAS will charge the company for the hearing (free to you), this will really p**s them off.

I wish you luck and hope you do well but TM will have had their legal eagles go over this before it went public. I doubt if they will cave in as this would start an avalanche of claims against them, I hope I am wrong.

:beer:

batcat_2

I have to agree with Intasun I wouldn't waste your time with OFCOM they would actually do anything but you can go to CISAS after eight weeks now as from there website : "How should I complain? You should first of all let the company know that you have a problem with them. The company then has up to eight weeks to either try and settle that problem with you or to issue you with a deadlock letter, which will refer you to us. If you come to us before going to the company then we will be unable to handle your complaint and will refer you to the company. If more than eight weeks has passed since you told the company of your problem and you have still not had your complaint resolved to your satisfaction, you may then come direct to us." They were okay when I dealt with them and gave me some pretty good advice. Good luck

musical_norwich

I'd take them to court directly. I did and I received a cheque for £430. I have no faith in the industry-funded Cisas and small claims track is cheap and can be done online.

On t-mobile having great lawyers who will have been over every item, I am sorry but that is total rubbish. The defence I received was incoherent gibberish and the terms and conditions are full of errors and inconsistencies. Much lower quality work than I have experienced professionally or than that which I would be willing to pay for.

T-mobile will try to argue that you have not cancelled and hence have suffered no loss. Make sure you write demanding that your contract is ended and you are issued a PAC for no fee. When they refuse this, which is your contractual right, T-mobile can no longer claim you have neither cancelled nor suffered loss.

Although I claimed on 0845/0870 you will find my witness statement to the court useful. See here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1706673&highlight=mobile+430&page=12

Vodafone is a so much better experience in every way when you escape.

Good luck and hope this helps.