Tenancy query

Noozan

I wasn't sure whether to post this here or Money Savers Arms but will try here since it's to do with housing.

Right....my parents are close to reitirement age and currently live in rented local authority accommodation in Cornwall. They both have health problems; my mother is on the waiting list for an organ transplant. They have very little family support where they currently live and haven't made many friends in the area as they do not speak English.

I live in Fife and they would like to move up here to be nearer me. Now, the difficult bit....they own the leasehold on a small takeaway which has a flat above it; one of my brothers lives in the flat and pays them a nominal rent of £10 per week (I know! :eek: ) which covers everything: food, electric, TV, phone, rates, washing - everything! He is currently employed by the business, which will be sold when my parents move. He is not in a position to take over the business as he has alot of personal debt and no savings. There is no question of not selling up as my parents need the money - they also have no savings. (Although they have no debt)

My brother has been mollycoddled all his life (he's 32) and of the 4 of us, he's the only one that hasn't flown the nest, so to speak.

There is housing available in my area, through a housing association for older chinese people and my parents would like to apply.

I wondered if my brother could add his name to my parents' tenancy (it's currently just in my dad's name) and told him to ask the council if this was possible. He enquired at the council and told them (quite correctly) that he was living in private rented accommodation and they told him it wasn't possible to add his name. A few weeks later, he wrote a letter on behalf of my dad saying that "his son who was currently living with him would like to add his name to the tenancy" and received a reply back saying that only spouses could be added and that his son had previously contacted them and said he lived elsewhere.

I thought that if he was on the tenancy at the point my parents left, he could request a one or two bed flat exchange, which is what he would like. I'm sure they would give him one tomorrow as it would free up a large 3 bed house with large gardens for a family in need of it.

My brother is unlikely to be allocated a property if he went onto the waiting list just now as he's single, male and had no dependents and therefore not a priority. When the business is sold, he will be unemployed. He has been trying to find alternative/additional employment for over 18 months but nothing has been forthcoming. Private rented accommodation is very expensive in the area too.

Where does he go from here? We can't sell the business from under his feet and render him homeless but also, can't wait forever either.

Sorry for the long post!

lynzpower

Hi

a housing officr would say- why does the son need to be on the same tenancy. this will limit the amount of offers your parents will recieve. Is there a good reason why he cant get his own tenancy? Just because he isnt in priority need, he could well get himself a private rented flat, and get a new job, or get the private rented paid by housing benefit.

Fife and cornwall are completely different boroughs, so yes, cornwall will be chuffed with their 3 bed house back, but tihs is nothing to do with another borough, unless reciprocal agreements take place ( mainly in london, moving people from London to burnley/oldham/ doncaster among others.

I would say, you say you cant pull the business out from under his feet, and you cant make him homeless, but if your parents are elderly and in need they have to come first. You describe him as able bodied, and able to work. You suggest that hes been mollycoddled, I think the sooner the business is sold, he can get another job and rent a property himself.

Sorry if that sounds harsh xx

rchddap1

If he's 32 then he should be able to take care of himself by now. If my parents were in that position, and were not selling up because I was still around I'd tell them to get the job done and I'll sort myself out as quickly as I can. Actually they probably would just do it anyway and say tough.

If he has been mollycoddled then is it possible that he hasn't been looking for another place & job because he's hoping that if he stays put then nothing will change.

Once he's homeless or once there is a date that he has to be out he should be in a better position to talk to the council and sort something out.

Personally I'd get on with the sale and the move.

Noozan

lynzpower wrote:

Hi

a housing officr would say- why does the son need to be on the same tenancy. this will limit the amount of offers your parents will recieve. Is there a good reason why he cant get his own tenancy? Just because he isnt in priority need, he could well get himself a private rented flat, and get a new job, or get the private rented paid by housing benefit.

Fife and cornwall are completely different boroughs, so yes, cornwall will be chuffed with their 3 bed house back, but tihs is nothing to do with another borough, unless reciprocal agreements take place ( mainly in london, moving people from London to burnley/oldham/ doncaster among others.

I would say, you say you cant pull the business out from under his feet, and you cant make him homeless, but if your parents are elderly and in need they have to come first. You describe him as able bodied, and able to work. You suggest that hes been mollycoddled, I think the sooner the business is sold, he can get another job and rent a property himself.

Sorry if that sounds harsh xx

It wasn't so much for a reciprocal agreement - obviously they can't just "hand over" the house for my brother to park his bum in as they'd effectively be on two housing agreements. I have the application form filled out and ready to go to the housign association in Fife but I would have thought they would contact my parents current landlord to see if they are up to date with rent etc (as they asked for current landlord's details). I meant that if he was named on a tenancy, which my father later relinquished; he would be able to get a transfer to a flat easily.

Yes, my brother is able bodied and able to work but he has had a few personal problems in the past which I don't want to go into.

I do not think your comments were harsh at all; I do agree with you but it's difficult because he's my brother and family is important to me and is a strong part of my cultural beliefs. That's the crux of the problem too; although I want my parents to be happy and do what's right for themselves; my brother is their eldest son and they would never put him out on the street. If you knew much about chinese folk, you'd know that they think the sun shines out of his a*se!

lynzpower

Seems tough. Whats your brothers expectation from your parents?

Noozan

rchddap1 wrote:

If he's 32 then he should be able to take care of himself by now. If my parents were in that position, and were not selling up because I was still around I'd tell them to get the job done and I'll sort myself out as quickly as I can.

This would be the ideal situation but it's just not happening. They have sat him down and told him of their plans but I'm not sure if it's really sunk in.

rchddap1 wrote:

If he has been mollycoddled then is it possible that he hasn't been looking for another place & job because he's hoping that if he stays put then nothing will change.

We did think that this might be the case (we, being myself, younger brother and eldest brother's twin) He can be quite naive in his way of thinking and does sometimes ignores things or situations and thinks they'll just evaporate.

rchddap1

Noozan wrote:

my brother is their eldest son and they would never put him out on the street

So all he has to do is keep quiet say the right words every now and then (eg, "I'm really trying honest") and then forget about it. If he's happy in his current situation (ie, everything getting paid for him, a job provided for him...and who wouldn't be) and he knows that his parents would never in a million years just turf him out...then he has no reason to do anything that he doesn't want to.

This problem is not going to sort itself out easily. In fact I'd even go as far as suggesting that it could end up creating quite a bit of resentment between some of the family members.

Family is very important to me too. But that doesn't mean always doing the 'nice' thing. Sometimes to really help someone you have to be the bad guy. My OH has 2 daughters and we'd always take them in if they needed help. However, my partner would be the first one to suggest kicking them out if they weren't pulling their weight and were taking us for a ride. He's a hard working man and would expect the same from them. He'd still love them bucket loads though of course.

Noozan

lynzpower wrote:

Seems tough. Whats your brothers expectation from your parents?

He was asked by my parents if he wanted to move too and initially he was keen until they pointed out that he'd be expected to find a flat for himself up here as the place they're hoping to go to is "retirement accommodation."

I know he's been trying to persuade them to stay in Cornwall but I decided early on that I wasn't going to sway my parents' decision either way and let them decide for them themselves. They have all stayed up here for holidays etc and my parents had decided that there was more for them here than in Cornwall.

I think he expects them to not move and stay to support him financially, which isn't possible or certainly won't be possible for more than a few more years but he doesn't seem to see it that way.

I have said that if he wanted to come up here, I would help him find somewhere to stay but the he couldn't move in with me and DH as he would never move on again. My mother wants me to put him up but I'm standing firm on this one. His twin lives in Cornwall but I don't think he would take him in either.

Noozan

rchddap1 wrote:

So all he has to do is keep quiet say the right words every now and then (eg, "I'm really trying honest") and then forget about it. If he's happy in his current situation (ie, everything getting paid for him, a job provided for him...and who wouldn't be) and he knows that his parents would never in a million years just turf him out...then he has no reason to do anything that he doesn't want to.

I know! (In the voice of Monica from Friends) :rotfl:

Noozan

Personally, I don't resent not having been heavily financially supported by my parents and I got over the feeling of not feeling "as loved" as he was as a child and the only thing I'm not happy about is him not letting them be free to pursue something they want for themselves. The way I see it; they have rasied their family and spent years grafting to provide for us and now it's time for them to slow down and enjoy spending time together and seeking new interests. But he seems to want to prevent them from doing this! I'm so frustrated.

rchddap1

I don't think that there is anything that you can do. Either your brother needs to wake up and sort himself out, or your parents need to sell the place and then give him a date when things are changing.

Perhaps he's expecting to 'inherit' the business and the flat in the future? Perhaps he's expecting to be able to manage it? Perhaps he believes that your parents can move, do what they want to and still keep hold of the business.

It does get very frustrating banging your head against that brick wall (really starts to hurt eventually too), but sometimes people stick their heads in fast drying concrete and think that everything will go away. As you might guess we had some 'family issues' ourselvesa while back that fortunately have turned out for the best so far (things might change again though).