Can Lloyds TSB charge me?

bert&ernie

If they didn't send the OP a paper statement or an on-line statement, then I don't see how they can legitimately charge a late payment fee.

A card statement is more than a list of transactions - its a call to action, like a bill or an invoice. If the issuer doesn't send it, they they are in breach of their contractual obligations and cannot expect payment until they do so. It up to the issuer to tell the customer how much they should pay, not for the customer to ask.

I would not recommend withholding the minimum payment, but I would suggest that you have every right to demand that the late fee is reversed. You are unlikely to get very far while the account is in arrears, so I would put the account in order ASAP and then phone to ask for the fee reversal. If you don't get anywhere ask for details of the complaints procedure.

gazelle8760

blingz wrote: »

Hi

I have a credit card with Lloyds and for some reason it never comes up on my internet banking and when I ring the phone banking people it doesnt come up on their screens. It only comes up as existing on the credit card peoples computers, now ive been charged for not making my minimum payments. Can I refuse to pay on the basis that my internet banking didnt show me and ive previously rung in about this problem?

Thanks for any advice

Hi

The Gazelle thinks your having a Giraffe!

You have already said you have a Credit Card, therefore, regardless of whether if comes up on the Internet Bank or not, you owe money if your spending on it, whether you chose to pay or not is your choice, but missing payments can have severe consequences, and make obtaining credit more difficult.

The Gazelle thinks you should know when your statement is due, especially if you have had the card a while, I for one know my Lloyds statement is printed on the 26th of each month, I also know that I have up until the 22nd of the next month to pay, therefore, regardless of whether I can see my account on-line or not, I am Not going to refuse to make a payment, therefore, you should continue to pay as per agreement, they CAN enforce payment from you if you refuse, this would either be by selling your debt to a Collections Agency, which could result in a Default and or CCJ being registered against you, I mean is it really worth it? The Gazelle thinks you should at least make the minimum payment, and then sort out why you cannot view your account on-line, get your account back in order and don't get anymore adverse credit through being silly, you know you have the card, you have said so, therefore just accept your financial responsibility before Lloyds take the card off you for non-payment, then you would have only yourself to blame.:mad:

Comyface

blingz wrote: »

Hi

I have a credit card with Lloyds and for some reason it never comes up on my internet banking and when I ring the phone banking people it doesnt come up on their screens. It only comes up as existing on the credit card peoples computers, now ive been charged for not making my minimum payments. Can I refuse to pay on the basis that my internet banking didnt show me and ive previously rung in about this problem?

Thanks for any advice

You 'can' refuse to pay for whatever spurious reason you want.

They 'can' also update the credit reference agency to let them know you've used the card and not made any payments towards your debt.

I assume by the title of your post that you're not disputing the debt, only the charges you've incurred due to non-payment. I would explain the situation to them (in writing, after making any due payments) and see if they'll agree to waive under the circumstances.

gazelle8760

bert&ernie wrote: »

If they didn't send the OP a paper statement or an on-line statement, then I don't see how they can legitimately charge a late payment fee.

A card statement is more than a list of transactions - its a call to action, like a bill or an invoice. If the issuer doesn't send it, they they are in breach of their contractual obligations and cannot expect payment until they do so. It up to the issuer to tell the customer how much they should pay, not for the customer to ask.

I would not recommend withholding the minimum payment, but I would suggest that you have every right to demand that the late fee is reversed. You are unlikely to get very far while the account is in arrears, so I would put the account in order ASAP and then phone to ask for the fee reversal. If you don't get anywhere ask for details of the complaints procedure.

It is both parties responsibility to ensure that the account is running OK, not just down to the bank. The Individual who takes out the Card has a commitment to pay regardless of whether a statement has been received or not, I mean if they are spending on the card then surely that are capable of ringing Customer Services and finding out when their Statements are produced, surely I am not the only one who would think after not receiving statements that a payment would certainly be past due, or does the OP think maybe the debt has just vanished?

I highly doubt Lloyds will waive late fees, after all they are only a phone call away, and nothing to stop the OP from ringing them up and saying, can you tell me where my statement is, they say ignorance is bliss, but when it comes to not paying for your responsibilities, where do you draw the line?

And no, it's certainly not up to the issuer to tell the customer what to pay, normal people who take out credit cards, usually ask when their first statement is produced, so if it's at a time of the month that is not convenient, they can then change the date, why would the issuer take time and trouble to let every customer know when they have to pay, they send out statements with this information on it, if the customer has not had a statement in a given time, again normal people ring up and ask where it is, being an ex Markies Financial Services employee, I saw this all the time, it didn't wash with me then, and it certainly doesn't wash with me now, if we all took the same stance, then the companies in question would be out of business, and no one would have a card.

The only thing in your favor, is that you encouraged the OP to clear their arrears and at least make min payments, but your other points are clearly wishful thinking.

girltuesday_2

I don't think it's unreasonable to request that the charge for late/missed payment be waived as a goodwill gesture since they haven't correctly sent you statements, but you don't have any excuse not to pay the minimum payment.

bert&ernie

gazelle8760 wrote: »

It is both parties responsibility to ensure that the account is running OK, not just down to the bank. The Individual who takes out the Card has a commitment to pay regardless of whether a statement has been received or not, I mean if they are spending on the card then surely that are capable of ringing Customer Services and finding out when their Statements are produced, surely I am not the only one who would think after not receiving statements that a payment would certainly be past due, or does the OP think maybe the debt has just vanished?

I highly doubt Lloyds will waive late fees, after all they are only a phone call away, and nothing to stop the OP from ringing them up and saying, can you tell me where my statement is, they say ignorance is bliss, but when it comes to not paying for your responsibilities, where do you draw the line?

And no, it's certainly not up to the issuer to tell the customer what to pay, normal people who take out credit cards, usually ask when their first statement is produced, so if it's at a time of the month that is not convenient, they can then change the date, why would the issuer take time and trouble to let every customer know when they have to pay, they send out statements with this information on it, if the customer has not had a statement in a given time, again normal people ring up and ask where it is, being an ex Markies Financial Services employee, I saw this all the time, it didn't wash with me then, and it certainly doesn't wash with me now, if we all took the same stance, then the companies in question would be out of business, and no one would have a card.

The only thing in your favor, is that you encouraged the OP to clear their arrears and at least make min payments, but your other points are clearly wishful thinking.

I don't see what is "wishful thinking" in stating that a card issuer has a duty to statement its customers. Sending a monthly statement of account, either on paper or electronically, is a contractual and statutory obligation placed on the card issuer. If they fail to do this, then they have no legal right to apply charges on the account for late payment

The cardholders obligation is to make the minimum payment as notified. Put simply, no payment is due until the the bank notifies the customer as such. I don't see why you have such difficulty in understanding this rather simple concept.

I'm intrigued by your assertion "It is both parties responsibility to ensure that the account is running OK". Could you point me to any terms in a credit agreement that explicitly state this?

The OP certainly appears to be somewhat naive, but this doesn't change the principle that I have outlined. You however, seem to be unable to see past your own presumption that the OP is simply trying to avoid repaying their debt. I don't presume to know what the OPs ultimate intentions are, I have simply commented on the general principles as I see them and offered some basic advice. Whether or not my view "washes" with an "ex Markies Financial Services employee" is not my concern.

YorkshireBoy

bert&ernie wrote: »

The cardholders obligation is to make the minimum payment as notified.

I'm intrigued by your assertion "It is both parties responsibility to ensure that the account is running OK". Could you point me to any terms in a credit agreement that explicitly state this?

Although not 'conclusive', from MBNA (condition 8b, 3rd bullet)...

...you must pay...even if:

there is a delay in us producing, sending, or delivering your statement.

And from LTSB, which is the OP's provider, (condition 14.6)...

Your statement will be issued on the same date each month. You must pay us even if you do not get your statement.

bert&ernie

YorkshireBoy wrote: »

Although not 'conclusive', from MBNA (condition 8b, 3rd bullet)...And from LTSB, which is the OP's provider, (condition 14.6)...

Thanks for that. I'm not entirely surprised that such terms exist. However, I would argue that they are in fact "wishful thinking", as it were, on the part of the issuer.

T&Cs frequently contain these sort of "!!!! covering" clauses, but it is unlikely that they would be viewed as fair and therefore enforceable.

To be clear, I'm not arguing that the absence of a statement is a means to ultimately evade payment - simply that the payment cant be due until the cardholder is notified.

Anyway, if I were to be really pedantic, I could argue that the LTSB terms do not actually attempt cover a scenario in which the bank itself fails to issue the statement - it only covers non-receipt of a statement that they have actually sent.

YorkshireBoy

bert&ernie wrote: »

To be clear, I'm not arguing that the absence of a statement is a means to ultimately evade payment - simply that the payment cant be due until the cardholder is notified.

Understand.

Anyway, if I were to be really pedantic, I could argue that the LTSB terms do not actually attempt cover a scenario in which the bank itself fails to issue the statement - it only covers non-receipt of a statement that they have actually sent.

Concur.

natweststaffmember

I would be more pedantic and challenge the bank to justity the £12 or face litigation for recovery of the amount plus interest(courtesy of the OFT who have stated as much), but I do tend to hang around the reclaims boards