Investment in social housing to treble

1echidna

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Brilliant, were now seeing him nick ideas from the BNP!

What I am hoping though, as call me a snob all you like, is they stop this mixing of social housing in with private.

It's causing untold nightmares and misery for people. You can't just put two different sets of people in the same area and expect it to just work and everyone to get on. They don't.

Strikes me we have lost something since young men had to serve their national service and learn to mix with all types. I really think the path to disaster lies in trying to build barriers between social groups and trying to resurrect the class system (perhaps to the point where it becomes a caste system with untouchables) which I thought was disappearing. Some posters here may be very knowledgeable about economics but their views on society are neanderthal..

Graham_Devon

1echidna wrote: »

Strikes me we have lost something since young men had to serve their national service and learn to mix with all types. I really think the path to disaster lies in trying to build barriers between social groups and trying to resurrect the class system (perhaps to the point where it becomes a caste system with untouchables) which I thought was disappearing. Some posters here may be very knowledgeable about economics but their views on society are neanderthal..

Or maybe they just have experience of that society?

Like myself for instance, who has had to pay 3 times in just one year to ressurect a fence which has been smashed to pieces twice and burnt once by the same set of kids, who continue to live in the same houses, paid for by us.

Maybe I now have to live with an unsightly, 8 foot high metal monstrosity which costs us 4x the amount of the wooden fence but was seen as a solution to the problem.

Note the solutuon was not to stop the kids, or fine the parents. The solution was to charge us more and give us a horrible steel fence to look at.

Maybe when you have had your car keyed because you asked a child to stop kicking the ball at your neighbours windows, you would think "well maybe I'm getting a little tired of all this"?

As I say, until people have personal experience of all this it's easy to look down on people like me who say these things and go all holier than thou.

About 3 years before I moved in here, there was apparently a massive fight in the streets between 2 sets of private owners and 3 sets of council rented over these problems, where 4 were ended hospitalised and one nearly died. Neighbour told me about it about 4 months after I moved in! This was over the kids going through a fad of slashing tyres in the area.

This is something, where, having to live with it, and pay for it (paid £340 last financial year for those fences) where I'm not going to just put up and shutup because someone on a forum (as this is usually the case) tries to tell me I'm wrong.

Notice councillors sorting out the problems always live in detached houses, with nice big gates protecting themselves from others?

I'm becoming rather bored of those who just want to be able to look after their surroundings and personal property, becoming the bad guys. While those who carry out these acts become those who just need more care and need to be protected. That's where society has gone completely wrong.

1echidna

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Or maybe they just have experience of that society?

Like myself for instance, who has had to pay 3 times in just one year to ressurect a fence which has been smashed to pieces twice and burnt once by the same set of kids, who continue to live in the same houses, paid for by us.

Maybe I now have to live with an unsightly, 8 foot high metal monstrosity which costs us 4x the amount of the wooden fence but was seen as a solution to the problem.

Note the solutuon was not to stop the kids, or fine the parents. The solution was to charge us more and give us a horrible steel fence to look at.

Maybe when you have had your car keyed because you asked a child to stop kicking the ball at your neighbours windows, you would think "well maybe I'm getting a little tired of all this"?

As I say, until people have personal experience of all this it's easy to look down on people like me who say these things and go all holier than thou.

About 3 years before I moved in here, there was apparently a massive fight in the streets between 2 sets of private owners and 3 sets of council rented over these problems, where 4 were ended hospitalised and one nearly died. Neighbour told me about it about 4 months after I moved in! This was over the kids going through a fad of slashing tyres in the area.

This is something, where, having to live with it, and pay for it (paid £340 last financial year for those fences) where I'm not going to just put up and shutup because someone on a forum (as this is usually the case) tries to tell me I'm wrong.

Notice councillors sorting out the problems always live in detached houses, with nice big gates protecting themselves from others?

I am not saying it is easy or that you are wrong to be annoyed. But I do submit that a society with more divergence of wealth and influence is likely to be an even more violent and dangerous one. These are problems that it seems to me spring from the education system and will not be solved by creating ghettos. As for money, yes I agree, lots of people do not like paying out for taxes, but the money is often spent in ways that are just as beneficial for the economy as if they spent it themselves (food, goods and services etc).

ruggedtoast

Mixed social and private housing doesnt work well. How can it when the ideology behind it is so flawed? Take the underclass and shove them in with people who work in case it might bring them up a bit.

Mostly all it does is bring down the property prices of those unfortunate enough to have bought a house in these developments. Council housing, with the inevitable PPP gravy train middleman of housing associations, is used by the government as a dumping ground for people they cant be bothered to deal with.

Immigrants, single mothers, broken homes, people who stubbornly refuse to just live on the streets, coming to a council estate near you. PCSOs not included.

PasturesNew

Maybe every cluster, estate, street, needs to have one house set aside for an old-fashioned caretaker/"OI!!" shouter.

Somebody on the ground, living rent free, keeping an eye out and sorting things out.

Graham_Devon

1echidna wrote: »

I am not saying it is easy or that you are wrong to be annoyed. But I do submit that a society with more divergence of wealth and influence is likely to be an even more violent and dangerous one. These are problems that it seems to me spring from the education system and will not be solved by creating ghettos. As for money, yes I agree, lots of people do not like paying out for taxes, but the money is often spent in ways that are just as beneficial for the economy as if they spent it themselves (food, goods and services etc).

It's absolutely nothing to do with the education system. Absolutely didly squat.

The education system can NOT be blamed for parents and how they bring up their kids as the education system is also having to pander to these people and work around the problems, not talk about them. Again, the leftie think tank blames the education system and puts them as the bad guys, and absolving the people actually causing the misery of any part in it.

It is everything to do with the social system.

Name me one person who destroys their house, on purpose, for fun, who pays a mortgage?

Just one.

I can show you whole estates where people destroy their homes for fun, I drive past 2 every day. Point is, none of them are either A) paying anything towards the houses, or paying for any of the repairs.

They are however, being sheltered by the human rights umbrella and while it simply gets fixed at no cost either financially or personally to them, they will continue to do this.

So I stick by my original post on this thread. If they want to destroy the homes they live in and the areas surrounding them, let them. But let them do it to themselves, instead of unloading them under legislation into private surrounding properties.

You can bet if the magical man didnt come and fix all this stuff with the magical money and they actually had to pay in terms of living with their own destruction, they wouldnt do it.

Really, inanely simple. But NOTHING to do with education.

I simply cannot stand those people who think it's acceptable to have people like myself paying over £300 of their wages out to replace vandalised property when it's not us who are vandalising it, and then have the guts to say were the bad guys with the overtone of "you shouldn't be talking about this, nasty non caring person that you are".

chopperharris

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Or maybe they just have experience of that society?

Like myself for instance, who has had to pay 3 times in just one year to ressurect a fence which has been smashed to pieces twice and burnt once by the same set of kids, who continue to live in the same houses, paid for by us.

Maybe I now have to live with an unsightly, 8 foot high metal monstrosity which costs us 4x the amount of the wooden fence but was seen as a solution to the problem.

Note the solutuon was not to stop the kids, or fine the parents. The solution was to charge us more and give us a horrible steel fence to look at.

Maybe when you have had your car keyed because you asked a child to stop kicking the ball at your neighbours windows, you would think "well maybe I'm getting a little tired of all this"?

As I say, until people have personal experience of all this it's easy to look down on people like me who say these things and go all holier than thou.

About 3 years before I moved in here, there was apparently a massive fight in the streets between 2 sets of private owners and 3 sets of council rented over these problems, where 4 were ended hospitalised and one nearly died. Neighbour told me about it about 4 months after I moved in! This was over the kids going through a fad of slashing tyres in the area.

This is something, where, having to live with it, and pay for it (paid £340 last financial year for those fences) where I'm not going to just put up and shutup because someone on a forum (as this is usually the case) tries to tell me I'm wrong.

Notice councillors sorting out the problems always live in detached houses, with nice big gates protecting themselves from others?

I'm becoming rather bored of those who just want to be able to look after their surroundings and personal property, becoming the bad guys. While those who carry out these acts become those who just need more care and need to be protected. That's where society has gone completely wrong.

Two options , move or remove.

Move away , if the area is for sheet then it will only get worse.

Stay and remove them , by getting the area off its !!!! and away from the tv.Boycott council tax and council rents legally until something realistic gets done at the top end.

I agree the councillor should stay in the voters streets , not live in priviledged areas where one call to the police and the words "councillors home" gets something actually done.

We are no better than the scum of the earth that makes our lifes hell if we all do nothing about it.We blame govt , police , councils , judges and socialworkers , bad parenting etc , but getting out those in your community contravening your echr directives include those mentioned above that do nothing to stop it....get organised and sue them all for not protecting your rights but enforcing those of the scumbags.

If you have a problem family then get a signed complaint from the silent majority , make sure they also know that doing nothing fixes nothing.Get the press involved when you go on couincil tax strike , but for gods sake keep the money and dont spend it.

amcluesent

It just takes one rotten apple (or a couple of teenage scrotes) to ruin a whole estate. They are as sly as they come, their eyes never rest for a moment as they look for the next chance to dip a pocket or slip into a door left open. AND they can twist the cry-babies from the social round their finger, always making out they are the 'victim'. 20 years ago they've had had some common sense leathered into them at the approved school, now their type rule the roost. "It's all a larf, innit!".

England is finished.

Graham_Devon

chopperharris wrote: »

Two options , move or remove.

Move away , if the area is for sheet then it will only get worse.

Stay and remove them , by getting the area off its !!!! and away from the tv.Boycott council tax and council rents legally until something realistic gets done at the top end.

I agree the councillor should stay in the voters streets , not live in priviledged areas where one call to the police and the words "councillors home" gets something actually done.

We are no better than the scum of the earth that makes our lifes hell if we all do nothing about it.We blame govt , police , councils , judges and socialworkers , bad parenting etc , but getting out those in your community contravening your echr directives include those mentioned above that do nothing to stop it....get organised and sue them all for not protecting your rights but enforcing those of the scumbags.

If you have a problem family then get a signed complaint from the silent majority , make sure they also know that doing nothing fixes nothing.Get the press involved when you go on couincil tax strike , but for gods sake keep the money and dont spend it.

Working on the option of moving away. The other option would get me put in prison quicker than you can say "but my local MP claimed".

The area, however, is not that bad. It's just a select number of families. They come and go frequently as the council HAS to home them, so they just keep getting moved from area to area to cause some misery, then get moved somewhere else to cause some misery.

I'm sure theres some sort of conveyor belt system. Family 1 causing misery gets move to family 2's place where they are causing misery and family 2 come to replace family 1.

Can't blame the councils, the option to just leave them without a home is not there.

To be fair, I have said many times before, it's just 2 familes out of around 30 here. But those 2 families can cause a hell of a lot of misery to the other 28. It's split 70/30, 70% private, 30% social / council.

ruggedtoast

The irony about all this is that the solutions already exist, but are only being used piecemeal. There are semi secure buildings for asbo families, theyre not designed to punish them theyre there to teach them how to live with other people and have trained staff to intervene when necessary.

Mostly these families have been moved on a dozen times and want to settle. The wardens help people with parenting skills, accessing health care, literacy, helping them learn how to play with their children.

Theyre very successful but there are so few.

Council estate wardens and the PCSOs so you'd always have someone to have aquiet word. I remember this announcement with fanfare when I lived on an estate on Bow. Never saw one PCSO, if we had a warden he / she was very shy. Which was a shame because apparently this service worked very well in places where they actually did it.

Unfortunately this government is very good at giving a big build up to a damp squib.