Cheques move a step closer to extinction

flossy_splodge

jambosans wrote: »

I'm sorry, but are you joking? Cheques are not the archetypes of money transfer. Don't get me wrong, I love my socialist agendas but we're talking about banks and money transfer. So any illusion of power you felt you had with cheques as opposed to electronic means is misguided and clearly a ridiculous argument for keeping them.
Really, even though it has been posted earlier in this thread that when BACS is replaced there will be NO means of cancelling a payment once made. I CAN cancel a cheque.
It honestly astounds me how cheques are held in such high regard (as this thread clearly indicates), almost to the point where people refuse to accept there are viable alternatives.
How about simple freedom of choice.
How about 'efficiency' not being the sole God that we worship. How about, speaking for myself, I quite simply, LIKE using cheques.

I agree with BarclaysManager, and have held off posting as I felt he was handling responses accurately and to the point. However, after reading the quoted response above I just couldn't help myself.

Cheque use is in decline, of course they are going to be phased out over time. There are alternatives, and with a little education they can be much quicker, safer, greener and cost effective to use.
How arrogant you sound.
I have an 88 year old father who is stone deaf and physically disabled who does not live anywhere near a bank.
He cannot use the telephone to bank.
He cannot walk to the bank.
He cannot use the internet (doesn't retain info long enough to learn).
He cannot drive to the bank (gave up driving, quite sensibly, a few years ago).
I work, so I am not around during the day. Even if I was, why SHOULD I have to step in because some faceless bureaucrat believes they know better than me (OR my Dad) what we need to live our lives.

I've read enough, and there are very little responses that BarclaysManager hasn't already answered, so I would save the replies. No doubt this thread will continue with counter argument replies that have already been answered which people did not bother to read or accept.

My father is trying very hard, with support from me, to retain some semblance of control over his own affairs. He does not have dementia, he DOES however suffer from short term memory loss.
He is ENTITLED to be 'enabled' to be 'inclusive' in the society he lives in. Aren't they just SOME of the buzz words used by those making decisions to justify imposing change?
Even when my Dad goes, I shall fight tooth and nail to retain my option to use cheques. Last time I checked (no pun intended) I was a free individual. I WILL NOT be dictated to. Consulted? Great. Dictated to? NEVER.:eek:

flossy_splodge

BarclaysManager wrote: »

People can cope find with a little education - they will not be asked to undertake rocket science, merely to do things in a different way. You're acting as if they're being asked to learn a new language, in a minimum of five years' time.
You arrogant so and so.
How dare you assume that 'a little education' of those poor folk who just don't get it will sort everything out.
If I was ever tempted to have any sort of banking relationship with Barclays, you have utterly convinced me not to.
If you are an example of the levels of tolerance and understanding of the rights and needs of others in society possessed by Barclays employees, run for the hills folks.
You do not see the digital switch over slowing down for fears that the elderly could not operate a digital set-top box.

How stupid are you?
Digital switch over is not a matter of life changing importance.
Anyone not understanding it can have assistance to effect the change over, on a one off basis and then go forward. It does NOT affect the whole of their lives.

Inactive

flossy_splodge wrote: »

My father is trying very hard, with support from me, to retain some semblance of control over his own affairs. He does not have dementia, he DOES however suffer from short term memory loss.

Exactly the type of person that I was making reference to, your Father has endured 2 world wars, so that he/we can enjoy this type of " freedom of choice "..

Some bunch of jumped up bankers come along and take his only realistic free choice from him, all in the name of greed.

Disgraceful.

flossy_splodge

Inactive wrote: »

Exactly the type of person that I was making reference to, your Father has endured 2 world wars, so that he/we can enjoy this type of " freedom of choice "..

Some bunch of jumped up bankers come along and take his only realistic free choice from him, all in the name of greed.

Disgraceful.

Quite.
All either in the name of 'profit' or 'efficiency'.:mad:
How about people?:o

Inactive

flossy_splodge wrote: »

Quite.
All either in the name of 'profit' of 'efficiency'.:mad:
How about people?:o

" People " = Customers, are the last on the list where bankers are concerned.

Yet the very same bankers have caused the country so much harm, between them.

jambosans

flossy_splodge wrote: »

Really, even though it has been posted earlier in this thread that when BACS is replaced there will be NO means of cancelling a payment once made. I CAN cancel a cheque.

To an extent, slight advantage, I would point out the limitations however: if it has been cashed and passed certainty of fate it cannot be stopped and returned (unless it is fraud); if a cheque is guaranteed it cannot be stopped; and unless lost in the post most banks will charge you for the privilege. A posted dated BACS payment can be cancelled within the right timescales.

I would argue that the ability to stop cheques is limited in it's execution and you must go through your bank to action such a request. The only bit "you do" when issuing a cheque is writing it and handing/ posting it to the payee, everything else has to be done through the banks, therefore a complete illusion of power on your part.

flossy_splodge wrote: »

How arrogant you sound.
I have an 88 year old father who is stone deaf and physically disabled who does not live anywhere near a bank.
He cannot use the telephone to bank.
He cannot walk to the bank.
He cannot use the internet (doesn't retain info long enough to learn).
He cannot drive to the bank (gave up driving, quite sensibly, a few years ago).
I work, so I am not around during the day. Even if I was, why SHOULD I have to step in because some faceless bureaucrat believes they know better than me (OR my Dad) what we need to live our lives.

I fail to see what was so arrogant about my statement. I stated fact, cheques are in decline, they will be phased out. No one said they are going to be phased out tomorrow, so your father (who is in the minority) is not going to have to stop using cheques straight away.

flossy_splodge wrote: »

My father is trying very hard, with support from me, to retain some semblance of control over his own affairs. He does not have dementia, he DOES however suffer from short term memory loss.
He is ENTITLED to be 'enabled' to be 'inclusive' in the society he lives in. Aren't they just SOME of the buzz words used by those making decisions to justify imposing change?
Even when my Dad goes, I shall fight tooth and nail to retain my option to use cheques. Last time I checked (no pun intended) I was a free individual. I WILL NOT be dictated to. Consulted? Great. Dictated to? NEVER.:eek:

Listen, your father is entitled to a method of payment, cheques are still around, and inevitably they will be phased out over time. You like to throw around words like "dictated" and "bureaucrat" but if you look at the plain hard facts, cheques are steadily in decline, so with newer forms of payment ready to take their place, then of course they will be phased out over time.

I don't know how many time I need to make that point before you will acknowledge this. Also you're getting a little overdramatic, we're talking about the use of cheques, not human rights. There are alternatives to payment by cheque which may not share all the "advantages" of cheques, but they do exist and more often than not have greater benefits.

Obviously my opinion does not stand in good stead with a response involving a cute cuddly old person retaining their independence. However there's going to be plenty of time before the demise of the cheque for the next generation to adjust.

jambosans

Just to link to the original article which started this thread. Well, actually the BBC's article. No doubt MSE's version had yall reaching for your pitch forks.

Oh my, a counter argument for everyone on this thread who has been banging their heads of the walls over the removal of such a fundamental human right.

The Payments Council said it would not phase out cheques until it was confident that alternatives for the vast majority of current cheques uses had been identified and were accessible and acceptable to users.

The "bunch of jumped up bankers".

vet8

Even though I have defended cheques, I will admit that I very rarely use them, but I like to be ABLE to use them if I need to and last week was a prime example.

I paid the sheep shearer who shears my sheep once a year. I pay him a cheque. Otherwise I have to drive to the bank and withdraw loads of notes. I really do not know how else I can pay him. He of course does not have a CC reader in his car. I could offer to do a bank transfer, but would he spend hours shearing my sheep on the promise that I will hopefully send him the money after he has gone. Hmm! Naturally he likes to leave with the money clutched in his hand.

There is also the security issue. Is he likely to give me his bank account details? I read recently that in order to avoid fraud you are urged never to give your account details to anyone unless you are 100% certain of them. This week in my local paper was a warning about a scam whereby someone phones and says they are from the council and the householder is entitled to a council tax rebate. They give their bank account details so the "council" can refund the money and then the scammer empties their account.

Isn't this the danger with giving out your bank account details willy nilly?

jambosans

vet8 wrote: »

I paid the sheep shearer who shears my sheep once a year. I pay him a cheque. Otherwise I have to drive to the bank and withdraw loads of notes. I really do not know how else I can pay him. He of course does not have a CC reader in his car. I could offer to do a bank transfer, but would he spend hours shearing my sheep on the promise that I will hopefully send him the money after he has gone. Hmm!

An odd and funny example - sorry, I couldn't help chuckling when I read "I paid the sheep shearer who shears my sheep" - but still relevant.

If the money is transfered Faster Payments then he would be able to confirm receipt of payment before shearing your sheep.

vet8 wrote: »

Naturally he likes to leave with the money clutched in his hand.

Well, unless you guarantee that cheque, there is nothing preventing you from stopping the cheque before he cashes it. What I would regard as one of the main disadvantages cheques pose to payees.

vet8 wrote: »

There is also the security issue. Is he likely to give me his bank account details? I read recently that in order to avoid fraud you are urged never to give your account details to anyone unless you are 100% certain of them. This week in my local paper was a warning about a scam whereby someone phones and says they are from the council and the householder is entitled to a council tax rebate. They give their bank account details so the "council" can refund the money and then the scammer empties their account.

Isn't this the danger with giving out your bank account details willy nilly?

There are always going to be issues around giving out account information. However there is very little that can be done with a name, sort code and account number in terms of fraud.

If anything, there is more potential for fraud with a cheque. My Bank of Scotland and Lloyds TSB Cheques contain my name, sort code, account number, and potentially my signature when issued. So if it's a matter of trust, if you're providing your information to the sheep shearer on a cheque, then surely he should be able to do the same in reverse to allow a bank transfer.

Inactive

jambosans wrote: »

The "bunch of jumped up bankers".

http://www.paymentscouncil.org.uk/about_us/related_organisations

Mainly bankers of course...:rolleyes:

The banks, as ever, will do exactly what the banks want to do, we the consumer, as ever will not get a look in.