NRL Scheme-As a tenant should I be witholding tax to pay to CNR/IR-or am I deluded?!

broclo

Okay, Going to wing this email...

In response to...

***,

*** hasn't been out the country for more than six months and thus is not classed as NRL, they have confirmed this and that you should not withhold tax.

Regards

***

Dear ***,
In regard to your email, I have yet again spoken to the CNR. They state that if I was led to believe that *** was emigrating and would be out of the country for 6 months out of 12 she would be a NRL. They state that the period of 6 months does not have to pass to achive NRL status. They are of the firm belief that *** became a NRL on the day she left the UK, as she did not show that her intent was simply a holiday.

The CNR have advised that in the absence of a letter from themselves:
1. Confirming the landlord is not Non resident. OR

2. Confirming that landlord is Non resident but I am not held liable for the tax and therefore I have no responsibility to collect the tax.


Without either of the above, I have been advised by the CNR that I must follow their proceedure, to uphold my responsibilities and protect myself due to the fact that I am as a tenant liable for the NRL tax.

This information will be passed to {council} to ensure that they understand that I am simply complying with what the CNR have advised me and that in no way am I being frauduent, as you have advised them. It will also be passed to the CNR/HMRC.

The CNR are very clear in their communication with me and have addressed the issue of domicility and that the landlord has not been outside the UK for over 6 months at present. They are also very clear at what my actions should be at the present time. They have also advised that it is irrelevant that the monies are paid by the LHA and that it in no way changes any responsibilities or liabilities.

Tomorrow I will calculate monies owed for rent, due to the landlord and will deduct tax as advised and also the overpayment from the previous amount as I have been instructed to do. The monies will then be paid into *** bank account.

I will then send a breakdown to the UK address, unless you provide the landlords solicitors address as offered by *** which has not yet been provided, despite requests.

All further communication will be by mailed letter only in regard to *** tax status and any other issues involving the CNR/HMRC.

Kind Regards

Miss ***



What does anyone think, is this okayish? lol

clutton_2

""may i suggest that you do not reply to any more of the bro's emails for a couple of days - take some time out to think and get some perspective - you have a plethora of info to deal with and work with right now; a few days calm will take the heat out of the situation""

you are being waaaay too reactive to this - calm down

if you were my tenant the tone of your emails would really annoy me. your language is very prescriptive and bossy - it needs "softening" a bit - you need a home after all, and if you get too demanding - you will not get your contract renewed.

Conciliatory language is the way forward here - you seem to be wanting several fights just for the sake of it - calming language never did any harm

have you checked that there is no "break" clause in your agreement - if there is - you may be homeless before you realise.

please - calm down - take some time out to look at the bigger picture before banging out angry emails which will only serve to make your landlord even more resentful

broclo

clutton wrote: »

you are getting very muddled. deal with one thing at a time.

You are not entitled to the landlords home address - you have to be given a "serviceable address" - ie one at which papers can be served and to my knowledge courts do not accept post office boxes as serviceable addresses.

here is a compromise - if you get the solicitors details - why not suggest to the bro that you agree to put the tax element into the solicitor client account until liability, or otherwise, is established.

the deposit is another matter and can be dealt with at a later date.

i fear you are taking on too many battles in one go and possibly other peoples battles also.

may i suggest that you do not reply to any more of the bro's emails for a couple of days - take some time out to think and get some perspective - you have a plethora of info to deal with and work with right now; a few days calm will take the heat out of the situation

because you are waiting for LHA to pay your rent - you are in the hands of beaureaucrats - and you may be at a disadvantage if the rent is late arriving - threatening court action re the deposit just now would be a foolish thing to do.

I am only dealing with the tax issues, the other points were bought up, but are being dealt with seperately. Obviously if someone with accounting knowledge is telling me one thing and the CNR another it is confusing, hence the 'getting muddled up'. However, I'm sure I'm forgiven lol

I can not do what you suggest, regarding solicitors taking the situation out of my hands, CNR have made it very clear that at theis moment in time, they see me as liable, not matter what assurances are given otherwise by email from the LL or her brother.

I feel I have a duty to respond today as the rent was due yesterday, time is of the essence therefore and it needed/needs to be established whether I should be taking out 20%(plus 20% overpayment from previous payment) or paying the amount in full. I can not reply on being able to deduct later as I feel that the LL's financial affairs may be somewhat unstable due to past conversations.

LHA was cleared in to my bank account Sunday, so I'm not waiting for that, to pay the LL any monies, but just the clarification/confirmation of the tax issue.

clutton_2

""time is of the essence"" - many many tenants are late with their rent - there is nothing a landlord can do until you are 8 weeks late - nothing is going to happen to you if you pay a few days late.


""regarding solicitors taking the situation out of my hands""

i am not suggesting solicitors take the situation out of your hands. - merely that a solicitor acts as a "temporary bank account" here" - if this ever came to court such an action would be seen by both Inland Revenue and the Judge as indicative of your complete intention to pay the taxman OR the landlord - depending on who is legally entitled to the money.

please - take some time out here

broclo

clutton wrote: »

""may i suggest that you do not reply to any more of the bro's emails for a couple of days - take some time out to think and get some perspective - you have a plethora of info to deal with and work with right now; a few days calm will take the heat out of the situation""

you are being waaaay too reactive to this - calm down

if you were my tenant the tone of your emails would really annoy me. your language is very prescriptive and bossy - it needs "softening" a bit - you need a home after all, and if you get too demanding - you will not get your contract renewed.

Conciliatory language is the way forward here - you seem to be wanting several fights just for the sake of it - calming language never did any harm

have you checked that there is no "break" clause in your agreement - if there is - you may be homeless before you realise.

please - calm down - take some time out to look at the bigger picture before banging out angry emails which will only serve to make your landlord even more resentful

Wow, does it come across that way? Genuinely asked, not sarcasticaly!

I felt I was being direct, showing that bullying will not achieve anything and that I am not intimidated by threats of the LL telling the council I'm commiting fraud etc.

I have has the LL and LL brother screaming at me, being derogative about me etc in conversations and felt very bullied. I have at all times been completely civil and calm.

However, does there not come a point where you say, enough is enough, here are the facts and not try to pretty over things when LL's start threatening action against you and interference when you are simply asserting your rights and responsibilities?

broclo

clutton wrote: »

""time is of the essence"" - many many tenants are late with their rent - there is nothing a landlord can do until you are 8 weeks late - nothing is going to happen to you if you pay a few days late.


""regarding solicitors taking the situation out of my hands""

i am not suggesting solicitors take the situation out of your hands. - merely that a solicitor acts as a "temporary bank account" here" - if this ever came to court such an action would be seen by both Inland Revenue and the Judge as indicative of your complete intention to pay the taxman OR the landlord - depending on who is legally entitled to the money.

please - take some time out here

I feel that considering they are already throwing a hissy fit and informing the council i'm 'purposefully witholding monies due to them' and that I am getting constant texts and calls(before it was even due!) that I will get harassment if it is late.

Plus, why should the LL, even if a pain, not get their rent when it is due?

broclo

clutton wrote: »

because you are waiting for LHA to pay your rent - you are in the hands of beaureaucrats - and you may be at a disadvantage if the rent is late arriving - threatening court action re the deposit just now would be a foolish thing to do.

I've not even spoken to the LL/LL's bro about court action.

I understand your point fully though.

However, as the case below was held at my local court, just months ago, involving a section 8/x3 deposit, I feel that I would have a fair chance of a matching outcome?

Tenancy Deposit Scheme | Nearly Legal

Universal Estates v Tiensia, Croydon County Court, 23 February 2009. Ms Tiensia was granted an AST on 19 May 2008 by UE. The rent was £2400 per month. A deposit of £2400 was paid in installments, with the last on 4 June. Ms Teinsia was in rent arrears from the start due to HB problems and the landlord served notice relying on grounds 8, 10 and 11 immediately after the second month’s rent was due. Ms Tiensia defended the possession claim and counterclaimed for the deposit and 3 x payment. The landlord registered the deposit with Tenancy Deposit Solutions Limited and faxed the certificate to Ms Tiensia.
The terms of the TDS Ltd scheme stated that the deposit must be protected within 14 days of being received from the tenant and details provided. On application for summary judgment, the DDJ held that the ‘initial requirements’ of the scheme itself (as well as s.213) required the deposit to be protected within 14 days. This requirement could not be satisfied once the 14 days had passed. 3 x deposit ordered.
Depending on the wording of the terms of the particular tenancy deposit scheme (and I believe that they are broadly similar on this point), this is a good counter argument on the late compliance point. If the landlord has not protected the deposit within 14 days of receipt and the terms of the scheme are that they must, then they quite simply cannot comply with the ‘initial requirements of an authorised scheme’ as per s.214(1)(a) and (2)(a). The details of the scheme itself are therefore important to check.

broclo

By the way Clutton, I'm not trying to be argumentative with you, I really appreciate your input, i'm just kind of thrashing the points out if that makes sense

clutton_2

i am so sorry to hear they have acted in such a horribly aggressive rude manner and good on ya for not retaliating.

But, yes, your language does come across with a great deal of "must" and "shall" stern type-language - may i suggest words like "suggest" "offer" "cooperation" "compromise" "way forward" "mutually acceptable interim solution" etc etc

ok - another compromise - wait till Friday then send this months rent less 20% which you can then put it into a separate savings account (along with last months 20%) - then send Landlord's bro a letter saying that until the facts are fully established you have set aside the tax in a separate holding fund and are enclosing the remainder - and dont forget to get a receipt. Send a copy of this letter to the tax man also.

i think your "thrashing out " shows great maturity !!

re deposits - what you may not know is that there have been several (maybe a dozen?) cases in which courts have ruled in landlords favour re deposits not being lodged within the prescribed 14 days - some judges seem to have ruled that as long as the deposit is lodged before the court case - then that is ok - no 3xtimes deposit is payable. you cannot guarantee getting the same judge in your local court who made this one decision - as small claims judgements do not set precedents in law.

sooz

I agree with Clutton. Stop emailing now. Calm down & read what you have written. Normally the ignorant don't take kindly to having this pointed out to them

Yes, your LL & her brother are totally inept LL's, but you need to back down to achieve a compromise.

Don't email. Send the rent minus the amounts you are led to believe you should withold. Then send a recorded delivery letter, saying the balance of the rent is held in a separate account until the matter is resolved. Copy the council in on your letter. The suggestion to leave the tax funds in the LL's solicitor' client fund is excellent. You just need the solicitors details.