NRL Scheme-As a tenant should I be witholding tax to pay to CNR/IR-or am I deluded?!

broclo

lol...you dont wanna give me TDS advice do you? lol

I have some ironing also...

franklee

Hehe I think you are doing fine at collecting information.

With TDS if the deposit isn't protected then you can't be served a section 21 notice. Could be useful if they try to evict you for all this as there isn't any other defence against a correctly served S21.

How long is your fixed term, just thinking how soon they may try to evict.

broclo

Well Fankoo Franklee
I tell you...they think because they are dealing with a single mother and they are bankers/accountants they will sweep me under the carpet. Uhuh ... not moi lol

Anyway, I digress...

The agreement started 14th April, so we are a long way off the 12m yet anyway. However I will argue a non renewal if I believe it is only due to me asserting my rights. I've spent a lot of money so far here as they put matt emulsion on all paintwork...and well everything really, so i'm keen to stay etc.

My issue is, the deposit is not protected. I was told this by the LL on the telephone and then verbaly reminded her and her brother that they were not acting within the 14 day period. LL said it was in case I got in arrears. I told her that is completely irrelevant and then thought they would take the hint and deposit it.

However, today in a return email the LL's brother said in writing that it has not yet been protected.

Now as far as I'm aware, under the TDS, if the LL, or agent, fails to put it into a TDS within the 14 days I can take them to court and claim the Deposit plus x3.

I am to serve them a letter before action though.

However, even if they were to put the deposit into the scheme now(should have been done by 28th April at the latest) and serve me with proof, due to the deposit not being registered within the 14 days, it then (although the TDS will accept a late deposit) means the deposit is not protected under the original rules of the scheme as it was not done within the permittable timeframe.

So basicaly, if they put it in now, my view is that it is not protected, just 'held' as the terms of the scheme were not adhered to. Therefore I am thinking that court action would result in return of the deposit to myself(as putting in a scheme would offer no protection) plus the deposit x3 as compensation.

I'm really not sure though! So much conflicting information!


However...interestingly, this is my local court...

Tenancy Deposit Scheme | Nearly Legal

Universal Estates v Tiensia, Croydon County Court, 23 February 2009. Ms Tiensia was granted an AST on 19 May 2008 by UE. The rent was £2400 per month. A deposit of £2400 was paid in installments, with the last on 4 June. Ms Teinsia was in rent arrears from the start due to HB problems and the landlord served notice relying on grounds 8, 10 and 11 immediately after the second month’s rent was due. Ms Tiensia defended the possession claim and counterclaimed for the deposit and 3 x payment. The landlord registered the deposit with Tenancy Deposit Solutions Limited and faxed the certificate to Ms Tiensia.
The terms of the TDS Ltd scheme stated that the deposit must be protected within 14 days of being received from the tenant and details provided. On application for summary judgment, the DDJ held that the ‘initial requirements’ of the scheme itself (as well as s.213) required the deposit to be protected within 14 days. This requirement could not be satisfied once the 14 days had passed. 3 x deposit ordered.
Depending on the wording of the terms of the particular tenancy deposit scheme (and I believe that they are broadly similar on this point), this is a good counter argument on the late compliance point. If the landlord has not protected the deposit within 14 days of receipt and the terms of the scheme are that they must, then they quite simply cannot comply with the ‘initial requirements of an authorised scheme’ as per s.214(1)(a) and (2)(a). The details of the scheme itself are therefore important to check.

broclo

lol just recieved a very 'bristly' email from OZ...telling me basically she knows it all and I'm to communicate through her solicitors from now on!

Hmmm, sent an email back requesting an address!

Fine by me...maybe she will then comply with the tax and the lack of TDS protection.

Although by the looks of case history, having a solicitor does not mean she will get away with the lack of compliance to the TDS ... but she will get some wacking bills everytime they reply to a letter from me.

Madness, why do people have to 'fight'...can tell by the email she thinks that I am the bad guy :rolleyes:

anotherpaul_2

broclo wrote: »

The agreement started 14th April, so we are a long way off the 12m yet anyway. However I will argue a non renewal if I believe it is only due to me asserting my rights. I've spent a lot of money so far here as they put matt emulsion on all paintwork...and well everything really, so i'm keen to stay etc.

Presumably there's no break clause? As to arguing, you can argue all you like, but the LL is not obligued to renew an AST. They need no reason at all.

broclo wrote: »

So basicaly, if they put it in now, my view is that it is not protected, just 'held' as the terms of the scheme were not adhered to. Therefore I am thinking that court action would result in return of the deposit to myself(as putting in a scheme would offer no protection) plus the deposit x3 as compensation.

I think it may be a grey area. If the LL protects the deposit before the hearing, the court may rule that they have now complied and not award the penalty, in which case you'd lose costs for no benefit. It seems to vary depending on which court you get and how they feel on that day. But then, IANAL and I may just have heard wrong. (I'm not saying you shouldn't chase it.)

*Chattie*

I think I'd be more concerned over not having gas safety check stuff than anything else

00ec25

The OP is of course absolutely in the right regarding their need to deduct tax from rental payments where they have not been given assurance as to the NRL status

The lack of gas safety, EPC etc just confirms that here is a LL who emigrated and thought they would cover their costs by renting out without having done any research into what are their responsibilities as a LL.

I think the OP has behaved very well so far and should now communicate only in writing so as to protect themselves since HMRC are now aware of the case and may need a paper trail. Clearly the brother and sister have now been taught the facts of renting by the OP and found they do not like the position they are in and so have, in accordance with basic human nature, become very defensive and sadly aggressive.

(As a LL myself I am however slightly less sympathetic that the OP is now apparently set on exploiting the situation to get x3 deposit as though this was their automatic due to gain financially for themselves. Looks like a typical case of an amateur LL meets a professional HB tenant )

broclo

00ec25 wrote: »

(As a LL myself I am however slightly less sympathetic that the OP is now apparently set on exploiting the situation to get x3 deposit as though this was their automatic due to gain financially for themselves. Looks like a typical case of an amateur LL meets a professional HB tenant )

I'm afraid your incorrect as my posts above highlight the situation in the most consice fashion I could.

I paid for my deposit and rent(first LHA was recieved Sunday) myself and have just started to get LHA. The deposit was my money, not theirs, which was given at the same time as an AST was signed, saying that they would be putting the deposit into a TDS. It is not theirs to spend. However, they have spent it, as I have brought the subject up frequently and they have not acted.

How many times should I request that my money is protected as agreed? Why should they just ignore my requests to comply with their tenancy(they are not required by law to take a deposit)?

Why should my money not be protected because they have 'seemingly' spent it as they can not manage their finacial affairs(I've had 3 debt collectors here, although these are in LL's maiden name)?

To me they are not unresearched, they are simply being noncompliant. I have remained completely calm and polite on all occasions verbally, yet they have been completely rude and patronising.

As a LL...Do you think I should have to fight from April for my money to be put into a TDS, GSC's, EPC's and this is after moving to to a 'proffesionaly cleaned' place, that was filthy, by anyones standards? Since moving in, I have spent a lot of money fixing drains, locks, DIY disasters etc as they are not sorting things(said they would but has not happened) and I've just done them myself as it appears it is down to their financial situation. I can not even remember how many times I have requested they get the 2 sets of keys back from the 2 local letting agents(they were not used in the end) as I'm not happy that some Saturday chap can 'loan' the keys to a 'mate'.

The fact that my door gets knocked on, for cards in the LL's maiden name, for bills run up just before departure, the way in which they have acted when the subject of tax was bought up and the fact they have 'spent' my deposit...this to me screams out that they are not uninformed, but thinking they can flout the law as they are not within the UK!

I genuinely feel that they may have mortgage issues(given other factors) and believe that if that were the case I would NEVER see MY deposit!

I do genuinely appologise if my reply seems a tad 'gobby' to you, but I do feel rather frustrated that I could be seen as a 'professional HB Tenant'. To me a professional HB Tenant is a person that does not pay the last 2 months rent, knowing that if they have spent HB on a plasma tv, drink, drugs or in bloomin New Look, that to get the money, if at all, the LL would have to pay out an awful lot of money.

I only want my money protected, my safety guarded and tax liabilities met...not my LL's soul.

sooz

broclo wrote: »

To me they are not unresearched, they are simply being noncompliant. I have remained completely calm and polite on all occasions verbally, yet they have been completely rude and patronising.

As a LL...Do you think I should have to fight from April for my money to be put into a TDS, GSC's, EPC's and this is after moving to to a 'proffesionaly cleaned' place, that was filthy, by anyones standards? Since moving in, I have spent a lot of money fixing drains, locks, DIY disasters etc as they are not sorting things(said they would but has not happened) and I've just done them myself as it appears it is down to their financial situation. I can not even remember how many times I have requested they get the 2 sets of keys back from the 2 local letting agents(they were not used in the end) as I'm not happy that some Saturday chap can 'loan' the keys to a 'mate'.

You seem well informed. What I can't understand is why, in which case, you'd take on the property without seeing the EPC, gas safety cert, & with such an incompetent duo in charge.

The repairs & drains are not your reponsibility. Nor is the painting, or the locks. This is the type of thing your LL or his agent should be dealing with (unless you blocked the drains by pouring your nappy or oil collection down there )

Keep your letters short, to the point, send everything recorded delivery, & keep a copy. It's all too easy with email to send in haste.

princeofpounds

lol just recieved a very 'bristly' email from OZ...telling me basically she knows it all and I'm to communicate through her solicitors from now on!

Congrats for asserting your rights. It might get difficult for you as a result but I often thing these people need to be put on the right path.

Have you considered the fact that if you do not have a valid address for service for the landlord in England and Wales then you are not obliged to pay rent (although it is backdateable when they provide one)?

Might be another way to teach them a lesson. It also helps protect you because at the moment I'm not sure you would even get her into court re teh deposit - if you serve notice to her brother she will just deny she received it and the court won't be able to proceed.

Brother's C/O address is not good enough unless you get written confirmation that it is until further notice.