Need my Neff washing machine repaired...

kwatt

Andy_ArT_Trigg wrote: »

If anyone could make fixed price repairs work it would be repaircare though because they are part of the largest spare parts company in the UK and can get all spares very cheaply. It remains to be seen if they can pull it off or not.

That doesn't mean they sell them cheap Andy, as we both know.

It also doesn't mean that the repairers actually get passed any benefit of that buying power, again, as well we both know.

To be balanced, sometimes they do.

From what I can gather though these sort of calls are just passed to the repairers as warranty/insurance calls and there's a sort of air of, "it doesn't matter" with a lot of larger repairers especially, if the machine is written off. To the repairer, it's just another contract job that they make little or often, no money on, especially if they have to call back with parts.

What most people just do not realise is that, on a contract these repairers get paid one fee, one time to complete the repair and are often expected to warranty the WHOLE appliance, not just the work they did, for a minimum of 28 days. They're hardly going to fall over themselves and provide outstanding customer care when they're poorly paid and subject to Draconian conditions.

This isn't repaircare in particular though, it's the whole industry that works like that and it's largely why people get such poor service. But then, there's no money in cheap appliances to actually provide good service and, people want cheaper and cheaper appliances. Yet, at the same time, expect service levels way above that provided by even Mercedes or BMW?

That can't work.

This is where you get into the difference between someone who makes a living from repairing appliances on a small scale to a business that is trying to prevent recalls but still do 8-10 calls a day. The latter will spend less time and take less chances in order to complete the call and so, to cover themselves as they don't get paid enough, they will "belt and braces" it when they order spare parts. When you understand the industry and how it works this is just obvious, but to someone outside it, it certainly isn't.

Conversely, the small local repairer has a vested interest in trying to repair as economically as possible and keep his customer happy and loyal to him/her for repairs. He has a lot more time to repair, as a general rule and works a far smaller area. They also tend to do the job faster and, cheaper.

Last time I checked the average cost of a repair on laundry was about £65 inclusive of parts, VAT etc. from the local repairers.

HTH

K.

Andy_ArT_Trigg

We agree on many things K and have written at length about many of these issues. I personally don't know how many independents work for some work providers under such conditions and for such little pay other than because needs must.

The guys who sign on to be repaircare agents can also be just local repairers though. The service repaircare are attempting to provide is in theory a good idea though without access to the really cheap parts it could never work in my opinion. As the largest spares company in the UK they pay relatively very little for the spares so can absorb much of the cost of a repair right there. Plus they only pay the engineer a relatively small amount too- a fair bit less than he would charge direct.

Add these together and you have fixed price repairs which can benefit many customers though not all. As you point out, the average cost of a repair is less than the price for fixed repairs so they should make money out of most customers to cover the customers with expensive repairs.

They say they've carried out over a million repairs previously using the same repair agents so it clearly works and is viable enough to roll out to the general public. If the 500+ dealers they use weren't making any money they should theoretically pull out of the scheme.

The issue I'm trying to get to the bottom of is, has something fundamentally changed since the service was rolled out to the public such as the dealers are having unforeseen problems dealing with the public - or as I suggested in my last post did they all get used to being able to write off the troublesome jobs but are now seeing angry customers if they do the same?

Or is it just that they are having teething problems by over promoting the service leading to complaints which are inevitable and normal to all repair businesses being compounded by poor customer service and being allowed to drag on for an unacceptable amount of time?

To me, if someone calls out repaircare and the guy turns up as arranged and after examining the machine says it's beyond economical repair that shouldn't be a problem. They'd get a refund of monies paid less the £40 call out which is no more than they'd pay to many repairers and reasonable. It's no different to what all engineers do every day. The problem seems to be that the engineer is sometimes saying he'll order parts but weeks later someone from repaircare tells the customer it's BER which is unnaceptable.

It is possible for many repairs to be a lot cheaper than paying a repairer direct if repaircare are including the trade cost (and I mean <em>their</em> trade costs in their calculations as to what's BER or not. So a normal repairman may charge £45 - £60 labour plus £130 for a part but the repaircare equation for the same repair could be £40 labour plus £50 for the part which means a viable repair compared to the nearly £200 the customer could have been quoted directly.

The downside is that as you pointed out, the average repair cost may only be around £65 because many repairs actually don't need any parts or only need inexpensive ones so many people paying the fixed price will pay more than they would have done direct.

The whole fixed price service is a swings and roundabouts thing and until a repairman has seen a job a customer won't know if it would be cheaper to go direct to a local repairman or use the fixed price deal. (This is the same problem that people with free 5 year parts guarantees have always had).

At the end of the day a lot of people do prefer to just settle for a fixed price repair (maybe because many people have a fatalistic attitude assuming something like, "with my luck it'll need an expensive part) which why as long as the company is genuinely offering fixed price repairs and not cherry picking the decent jobs and dropping non profitable ones it remains a reasonable alternative repair option for many.

If they aren't careful though these relatively small number of complaints can cause a lot of damage and some of the complains I've seen seem very genuine complaints indeed.

blackfalcon

Andy,

I just experienced Repaircare 1st hand yesterday. I think there are so many valid complaints about this company on the net at the moment but they feel their size and power against the individual can allow them to carry on as they do without the fear of reprisals.

I have got a fault with my cooker which means it now has to be switched off at the wall because of the fault or it remains on.

This is why I am typing at this hour of the morning (4.16am) as I had to come down stairs when I awoke worrying if I had switched the cooker off at the wall switch????
Obviously if there were any trays with fat in them they could then overheat and ignite!!!

Its the paid the fee, engineer came out, said they would get back to us with a part fitting date, no contact, we emailed them, then they replied, sorry parts obsolete, no can do scenario!!!!! (The cookers not that old!!!!)

I have now researched many sites where Repaircare are the topic of conversation and not in a positive manner at all.

They may have terms laid on their web page, but as with someone else I don't think the terms are fair to the customer as they are not made clear enough.

It seems these people are, as someone said "CHERRY PICKING" The jobs which will make them money and then will find any excuse to get out of the work which is not going to leave them in profit. Surely with this type of service its going to be swings and roundabouts on large or small costs involved, that's their problem, but how can they keep getting away with this?

Researching the net has brought a few people together who have experienced the same but I tell you there's a lot more people out there who don't post on forums or who are not internet users!

I look forward to yours or other users views.

But for now Repaircare........ :-(

Andy_ArT_Trigg

Hello Blackfalcon. I think the service you have received, like the other complaints I've read is definitely substandard. Whether it is substandard because they are so busy they are struggling to cope, or whether the business model is fatally flawed, or whether the company is just bad, is something people are trying to work out. I do find it hard to believe the company would deliberately try to run a bent or scam service. In fact it's virtually impossible for me to believe that.

However, I could believe that maybe some of the 500 agents could be weak links and need weeding out either because they are just not up to the job, or maybe even because they are being asked to work under harsh and unfair conditions without enough pay to justify the service expected of them. If it is the latter then hopefully they have the courage and ability to get out of it and if this is the case then presumably the entire service will eventually collapse because without good quality engineers it doesn't stand a chance of being a good success.

In my opinion you have a very valid complaint in that you were told someone would get back to you with a part fitting date but they did not. This is unlikely to be due to deliberate practices. It's surely most likely to be due to them struggling to cope with the amount of work they are dealing with at the moment?

If the engineer had come out, examined the cooker and then looked on his laptop and found that the parts were obsolete you would not be happy at the news but could not complain at the service. Even if they had contacted you later that day or the following morning and advised you that the parts were obsolete it would still constitute a decent standard of service.

If the part genuinely is obsolete then the most they are guilty of in your case is giving a slow service. On the other hand, if the part is not obsolete then it is a much more serious matter and one which cannot be defended. Someone posted on my Blog about being told his appliance couldn't be fixed because the parts were obsolete but he telephoned the manufacturer who advised they were not. If the same was found to be true in your case then it doesn't look good for them.

You say your cooker is not that old. Functional parts are supposed to be made available for a specific minimum number of years after a product has been made. This used to be at least 10 years but I do know that pressure from manufacturers has allowed this period to be reduced. It may be nearer seven years these days.

I would suggest that you post exactly how old the cooker is (if possible - or at least a best guess) and the model number and make. Hopefully you'll know which part is required too but if not try to give exact symptoms. I'm sure that Ken, will be able to look into your case and advise if the part is genuinely unavailable or not because this is the crux of your complaint in my opinion.

If the part it's definitely not obsolete then you have quite a serious complaint with them. If it is obsolete then the complaint is only that they didn't get back to you in a reasonable time to advise you. I hope you would agree that this is fair and balanced.

blackfalcon

Andy,

Yes very fair reply and thank you for your time, I am just awaiting the reply from several agents I have approached and the cooker manufacturers as to availibility of parts.

I do have the parts names of which are required and you have mentioned points which are valid as I have also been advised accordingly today.

I will be following this case through to the very end and will inform you and the forum accordingly.

Just a minute did I switch the cooker of at the mains again!!!! Got to go ;-)

kaya

I spent many years in this industry, 90% of the "repairmen" i met were either incompetent or bent as a nine bob note, there is no such thing as a free call out or parts included, my best advice is that if your equipment is worth repairing always call the manufacturer and use there engineers, it will doubtless look more expensive initially due to high labour rates and they are not always foolproof but they generally wont stitch you up, independant people usually order parts to try to eliminate the problem then lie to get you to pay for there lack of ability, same with boilers, call the manufacturer!

kwatt

There's a plethora of ins and outs in this debate.

Basically I don't think that repaircare are trying to do anything untoward, they're not that sort of company as a general rule. I think it's very possibly the range of appliances that are a problem, what was narrow band contract work suddenly explodes into brands that are unfamiliar to the agents. Of course we then get back to that old debate we have Andy about technical support or, more pertinently, the total lack of it.

However, you have to understand that any of these so-called "fixed cost" repairs come with T's & C's and they will very often state that repairs over a certain value will not be entertained. This holds true for most as they have to mitigate their risk to a certain extent.

Added to which there are a lot of people that, were it a free for all, would take advantage of such a system will we say. This has and, does, happen. So the dishonest few spoil it for the majority of honest people as ever.

From both sides of the equation, there are issues.

I could go on for ages and explain it all but I don't really see the need to do so as I think that about sums it up and going further means dissecting the industry. Plus, without a greater understanding of the industry a lot of it would most probably be lost on most people.

Kaya, you forget one small detail in your post...

Many of the so-called "manufacturer service" outfits are independent companies. In the whitegoods industry only BSH, Indesit and Miele are almost exclusively using employed engineers and, even they use agents in certain areas. All of them, without exception, use independent agents.

In the heating industry the story is the same.

So to say that you are getting better service simply doesn't hold water, often you can get the "approved" service for less directly and save money. Especially when they now try to sell you a policy before you even book a call using what I consider to be very unethical tactics.

And I can assure you, OEM service is very much liable to over order on spares to ensure no callback as they have the same problems as the repairers doing contract repairs.

What you do get using OEM service is the ability to moan at the manufacturer if it all goes South but, IME, that often doesn't really get the result people want these days.

In any event, many manufacturers, the ones previously listed being some of the worst culprits, will not divulge ANY technical information or offer any support to a repairer that is not their contracted agent or employee. That's wrong and that's why some repairers can struggle at times, it has nothing to do with their competence as a repairer.

Whereas in the gas industry, the information is freely available.

It's just that some within the whitegoods industry favour feathering their own nests and being able to hold people to ransom.

HTH

K.

Andy_ArT_Trigg

blackfalcon wrote: »

Andy,

Yes very fair reply and thank you for your time, I am just awaiting the reply from several agents I have approached and the cooker manufacturers as to availibility of parts.

I do have the parts names of which are required and you have mentioned points which are valid as I have also been advised accordingly today.

I will be following this case through to the very end and will inform you and the forum accordingly.

Any news on whether the parts are available or not?

Andy_ArT_Trigg

Can we assume from the lack of reply that the parts were unavailable as Repaircare said?

Jenbear76

[FONT=&quot]Very good service, I had 3 parts fitted for £106 and the engineer was a friendly sort of chap and seemed to know what he was on about. would use the service again and again[/FONT]