Ex employee-unfair dismissal

jazzyman01

Zzzlazydaisy is correct. It is very rare that a tribunal will award costs. However, if, at a prehearing review it is determined that it was vexatious or frivolous the ex employee will be advised that it is possible that costs be awarded against her.

How do you think she is funding this claim?

As you have already submitted your ET response, it is probably a mute point but I would have pushed on a number of fronts -1 that your business could not sustain her (which is true and you state your accounts can show this), 2 - that you had found evidence of gross misconduct and that even had you not dismissed because of business reasons, that you were likely to dismiss for gross misconduct based on CCTV footage and other evidence. This would go to at least minimise any payment as it would have been a couple of weeks later and there is no pregnancy issue as pregnancy does not make a person a thief!

BASSETT

Pookie, she told me when she was 6wks pregnant, she was then told not to do anything, to be honest she even stopped sweeping up.
I suffer the same medical condition and working for the Nhs I more than understand the delicacy of pregnancy. Also my partner spent 20 years delivering babies so he too understands the issues.

Jazzy, she is on the "bru" so I assume legal aid is paying for this.
I did indeed state that my business could no longer sustain any type of wage and yes she probably would have been sacked for her conduct.

Can I just add that I really appreciate your replies, it`s so good to have some support and get advice.

zzzLazyDaisy

jazzyman01 wrote: »

Zzzlazydaisy is correct. It is very rare that a tribunal will award costs. However, if, at a prehearing review it is determined that it was vexatious or frivolous the ex employee will be advised that it is possible that costs be awarded against her.

How do you think she is funding this claim?

This is correct, but it seems that OP's solicitors have not applied for a PHR. The most likely reason is that, frankly, it would be a waste of time. Realistically, where an allegation of sex discrimination relating to pregnancy forms part of the claim, no tribunal is going to give a costs warning without hearing the evidence, which by definition means that the case has to go to a full hearing.

She may not be funding the claim. She may have legal cover under her house insurance, many of which include employment tribunal claims. Or she may be represented by a CAB or legal advice centre solicitor, both of which are free. Depending on her household income she may be entitled to free legal advice and assistance, but in that case there is no legal aid for representation at tribunal, which may be why her solicitor is seeking an out of court settlement.

BASSETT

How much will the tribunal cost roughly?
My solicitor is quite expensive but I trust him.
My credit is shot to pieces trying to keep my head above water and I have a court payment order that I`m paying off and a couple of defaults. All accrued since the start of the year.

londondulwich

The power to award compensation is governed by the rules of tribunal procedure and practice.

The award must be just and equitable. Any misconduct discovered after the dismissal may incline the tribunal to reduce the basic and the compensatory award accordingly.

Even if the tribunal believe that the true reason you dismissed her was related to her pregnancy, if you can establish that she was stealing, she may walk away with only a declaration that she has been discriminated against, and nothing else.

zzzLazyDaisy

BASSETT wrote: »

How much will the tribunal cost roughly? .

Do you mean what are your legal costs likely to be? Only your solicitor can answer that question as it depends on how complicated the case is, how many witness statements have to be prepared, how much messing around the employee is doing (which means solicitor's time dealing with letters and phone calls), and for how long the case is listed for hearing.

BASSETT

How much will it cost her to appear at tribunal. I know I`m facing a huge bill but that`s fair enough.
Solicitor stated we should maybe offer a lesser amount than she`s claiming or it could be a 2 day hearing.
I will not be offering her anythng.

ohreally

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

The normal rule in tribunals is that each party pays their own costs, win or lose. It is very rare indeed for the tribunal to order the losing employee to pay the employers legal costs.

The tribunal would have to be satisfied that the case was 'frivolous and vexatious' - that is to say that the claim never has any realistic prospect of success and was merely a malicious action on behalf of the former employee. But it is extremely rare that a tribunal comes to that conclusion - they will normally say that the case was 'misconceived' - ie that the employee didn't understand the law and while their grievance was genuine, the law wasn't on their side.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=5541163&postcount=3

The chap i referred to in this post had a substantial award against him - he was on JSA by this time - and there was nothing frivolous about his case.

BASSETT

Wee update, met with solicitor this morning who adv he has heard nothing from her solicitor, an email from Acas adv that she was claiming £3600.
We adv solicitor we will not be paying anything.
Have to give solicitor all letters I have from creditors, reminders, defaults, overdue etc and also letter from bank manager confirming demise of the business during her employment.

So we have a two pronged attack ,

1, that we could obviously no longer sustain her wage
2, she would have been dismissed anyway due to her conduct.

katie_kt

im not really sure why your being such a prat. If the employer was lying why would they post on here asking for advice?? If you dont have anything constructive to say dont reply to peoples posts, its nit even constructive criticism, your just being plain rude!!