Ex employee-unfair dismissal

kazat73

Good Luck Bassett, I'll be thinking of you.

BASSETT

Well the end of an eventful day, and it`s not over, hubby only halfway through giving evidence. At the start of the proceedings the judge said he did not think it would last the day but it`s still continiung.
I think we will be penalised for not giving her a contract which is fair enough and I get the feeling that they have already dismissed her pregnancy claim. We have produced our books which make for depressing reading.
Hubby is representing us as we cannot afford £1500 a day for our solicitor and her solicitor is a sleazy little uneducated **** who is clutching at straws.]
He claims that he did not receive our letter agreeing to a greivance meeting and after 3pm produced a letter that had supposed been sent to my solicitor asking for a response. This was disallowed as it was not in the bundle. the bundle contained 35 pieces and 33 of them were mine.
She produced a witness, an uneducated employed halfwit with terrible grammar who admitted he has been coming into the shop 3 times a week for the past 6 months spying to see who was in.

Hubby asked him if he could prove these people who were in, were employees and were being paid for being there. He said no.

I`ll update tmrw

Uncertain

BASSETT wrote: »

Well the end of an eventful day, and it`s not over, hubby only halfway through giving evidence. At the start of the proceedings the judge said he did not think it would last the day but it`s still continiung.
I think we will be penalised for not giving her a contract which is fair enough and I get the feeling that they have already dismissed her pregnancy claim. We have produced our books which make for depressing reading.
Hubby is representing us as we cannot afford £1500 a day for our solicitor and her solicitor is a sleazy little uneducated **** who is clutching at straws.]
He claims that he did not receive our letter agreeing to a greivance meeting and after 3pm produced a letter that had supposed been sent to my solicitor asking for a response. This was disallowed as it was not in the bundle. the bundle contained 35 pieces and 33 of them were mine.
She produced a witness, an uneducated employed halfwit with terrible grammar who admitted he has been coming into the shop 3 times a week for the past 6 months spying to see who was in.

Hubby asked him if he could prove these people who were in, were employees and were being paid for being there. He said no.

I`ll update tmrw

Be careful you don't let your anger get the better of you here. You may have good reason based on what I read in this thread but there are two sides to every story.

Her solicitor may be a "sleazy little ****" but, if he is a qualified solicitor, he won't be an uneducated "sleazy little ****" !! You will need to keep calm and behave professionally otherwise you will give the tribunal the impression that you are hot headed, angry and, by extension, treat your staff badly. That will be what the "sleazy little ****" is hoping!

BASSETT

I know what your`e saying, hubby is doing all the talking thankfully as he runs the shop so is there more than me.
She claimed that she had been driving past our house regularly and saw 2 brand new cars, one of them a Mercedes, sitting in the drive and was "shocked and upset" at seeing these. Hubby cross examined her and informed her that we had moved from that address 6 months ago and was welcome to view his £200 volvo sitting outside.
She was vague on a few questions and the judge advised he thought she was trying to avoid answering them. She admitted she knew it was getting quieter towards the end of the year. but said she did not know why. She admitting to cancelling sales and judge asked why she wasn`t dismissed then, but we gave her second chance as we thought everyone deserves one. Stupid I know..........
I`ve resigned myself to some sort of payout but hope it`s something I can swallow.
Her quantification of loss comes to £4334.00.
Judge asked who made that up, which was her solicitor of course.
Hubby admitted he made a mistake as in not providing a contract but it was our first business venture and first employee etc etc.
Tmrw when his evidence continues, he will ask why she wanted to return to work after the birth, if we treated her "severe and nasty" as she is claiming.
And why did she not walk out, or leave under such said conditions to protect the health of her and her baby?

Magnolia

Good luck tomorrow Bassett - no advice from me as I don't have any experience but I will be cheering from the sidelines - hope your delightful ex employee gets her just desserts!

devils_advocate

Bassett

Don't forget that during the hearing the judge has to be seen to be fair to both sides.He's not going to jump in during the case to say that he thinks that her evidence is a load of ..... piffle, but will listen to everything said and come to conclusions afterwards. Its then that he's most likely to say "on balance I preferred the evidence of the employers rather than the ex- employee, who strained credulity with her inconsistent testimony." or something like that.

dharm999

Bassett

Good luck for tomorrow. One word of caution though, when we were in a tribunal, it took 3 months for the tribunal to come back with a decision. I dont think it will be that long in your case, but be prepared that this may still drag on for a while longer.

BASSETT

You were right dharm999, the judge adjourned today advising he "would make a decision in due course due to the complexities of the case"

Her solicitor tried to infer a couple of points, I`ll try and make them easy reading

Him-Is it true you do not pay employee NI contributions in order to avoid paying maternity pay?

Me- I was paying them, up until she left, have the bank statements to prove it.

Him-Why is there no tax deductions on her pay slips?

Me-She is under the threshold for tax

Him-Did you give a written risk assessment?

JUDGE- She doesn`t have to by law, verbal is suffice

Her solicitors summary was over an hour and centered on previous successful cases (not his) that have been won by pregnant claimants.

He also tried to claim I did not follow tribunal procedures by not agreeing to a grievance meeting, letters from MY solicitor including a reply saying we were willing to have a meeting, and a letter saying he had no response from her solicitor, were in the bundle, so hopefully that disproved those points.

I admit I have made mistakes and thats my own fault for being too trusting and too naive and I`ll accept the penalty but I`ll appeal anything else I don`t agree with.

I would definitely advise anyone facing a tribunal sits in on one for experience.

So it`s over for now thank god. However I think it`s bull crap that hard working people can be taken to the cleaners by those out for a quick buck.

Uncertain

BASSETT wrote: »

I admit I have made mistakes and thats my own fault for being too trusting and too naive and I`ll accept the penalty but I`ll appeal anything else I don`t agree with.

.

I don't think you can - you can only appeal on a point of law not just because you don't agree with the judge!

You may well have been very badly treated by this person and, maybe, you will win most or all of the case. I can understand how you must be feeling but fuming about the other side's solicitor and you own ideas of what amounts to justice will not help.

I hope for your sake you don't end up worse off that if you had settled "out of court". You also need to put a value on your time and energy. It is easier for large organisations to stand back and see the bigger picture. Sometimes holding out for "justice" can be a lose lose situation.

Sorry!

BASSETT

I hope not either. I have spent the past 2 days telling them I could not afford her wage any longer.
I utilised every cost cutting exercise.
Her wage was the last thing to be cut although I was already 3 months behind in commercial rent.
What business puts wages before rent? Me, as I was stupid.
I made it clear to her solicitor I am in no financial position to offer any kind of settlement.
The bundle contained over 30 documents of mine which were reminders, defaults, etc.
Even a letter from my bank manager explaining the dire situation of the business.
My own solicitors words "your financial state is horrendous"
She has been driving past somebodys house, seeing their brand new mercedes and thinking this was mine, claiming she was "shocked and upset at seeing this"
A house I moved out of 6 months ago to save rent.
The same time I had to let her go.

At the end, the judge asked her solicitor "tell me how to prove she was dismissed because of her pregnancy, because I can`t see how I can"

Her solicitor didn`t answer him.