illegal download letter

Omertron

mr_fishbulb wrote:

But if someone came into your house with a laptop and copied all your DVDs, would you be liable?

Depends on whether I know them or not

wabbit02

Tim_L wrote:

Be careful, as there is some seriously bad advice being dished out here. "Reasonable doubt" is not the criteria - if this is not a scam (and every indication would seem to suggest it is - this would appear to be a civil claim for damages. "Reasonable doubt" is a criminal standard, not a civil standard.

Civil cases run on "Balance of probability", which is a lower standard of proof. It would become a question of balancing whatever information is available from the IP records with your friend's own assertions, and also perhaps the possibility of an infringement from an unsecured radio network connection.

If your friend destroys evidence or clears records on the PC, this will count against him when calculating the balance of probabilities - it is not the behaviour of someone with nothing to fear from an examination of the facts.

But as I say, there is a 95% probability that this is an opportunist scam, similar to phishing, sending an official looking communication out to catch people out.

Tim_L's right on the money

I am supprised that they offered a settlement in their first letter - best to check if it is a scam. I would have expected letter 1 to be, we're going to take you to court, with letter 2 being the "one time low settlement offer".

If this is a civil case £300 seems like a reasonable amount for a settlement, software fee's + solicitor fee's up to that point - if they try to "fine" you it makes the subsequent case more difficult for them + you admit liability so they get to claim the PR victory, which is far more valuable

codetown

Hi,

a) Please post which ISP it is.
At least we can tell if it uses static or dynamic IPs and if it changeds IPs recently. Also this info can be useful to name and shame them, as I believe they CANNOT share your information with third parties (except the police; a law firm has NO power on them).

b) It would be unreasonable to consider your friend liable for something that has happened via his IP. As said earlier there are ways to get into your wireless network and use your IP and even more there are trojans that might have contaminated your PC and allowed control from the outside (still with your IP, PC data etc) without any knowledge from you at all.

As a proof of course your friend could bring the fact he had to FORMAT completly his hard disk as his computer started to be slow and present strange signs.

c) If your friend has NOT used this program, then I would say it is impossible to prove anything from an IP.
If he used it (even once) or registered it, then the chances are that this antivurs program had an IP recording/checking built in and they might have further more concrete elements.

mr_fishbulb

codetown wrote:

a) Please post which ISP it is.
At least we can tell if it uses static or dynamic IPs and if it changeds IPs recently. Also this info can be useful to name and shame them, as I believe they CANNOT share your information with third parties (except the police; a law firm has NO power on them).

ISPs have to share the info after a court order, which the law firm got.

Also as mentiond before on the thread, the ISP will have a very thorough record of who was assigned an IP address at any specific time, regardless of static or dynamic addresses.

sco0ter

mr_fishbulb wrote:

Also as mentiond before on the thread, the ISP will have a very thorough record of who was assigned an IP address at any specific time, regardless of static or dynamic addresses.

Yes but where the mistake was made is when the server in america showed the time as 17:00 and because of time difference that no one pointed out they asked the ISP in another country who had the IP for that time and date and it was out by 4 hours. a completely innocent person was accused of downloading a file while they were logged off.

mr_fishbulb

sco0ter wrote:

Yes but where the mistake was made is when the server in america showed the time as 17:00 and because of time difference that no one pointed out they asked the ISP in another country who had the IP for that time and date and it was out by 4 hours. a completely innocent person was accused of downloading a file while they were logged off.

That's a good point.

codetown

mr_fishbulb wrote:

ISPs have to share the info after a court order, which the law firm got.

Also as mentiond before on the thread, the ISP will have a very thorough record of who was assigned an IP address at any specific time, regardless of static or dynamic addresses.

Sorry,
where is stated that the company had a court order? I thought the letter was threatening to go to court, not something already done!

codetown

mr_fishbulb wrote:

Why should they do that if they haven't done anything wrong?

They should format the hard disk.
If the law firm has proof that the download has been done via their PC (and they never used that program) it is clear that the PC has been contaminated and opened to hjacking by which someonelse had illegal control of their PC.

So it needs to be formatted to remove all those nasty worms.
I agree with that suggestion!

gurj_k

hi all...the isp is energis - wanadoo..also the adress has benn confirmed and is on ferret street/lane london.....

mr_fishbulb

codetown wrote:

Sorry,
where is stated that the company had a court order? I thought the letter was threatening to go to court, not something already done!

Albertross posted this link to the Law company's press release:
http://www.bwlaw.co.uk/index.cfm?0C405461-65B8-CEEE-AE49-5747B5CE54BE
It says high court order was obtained against the ISPs to release the info.