illegal download letter

mr_fishbulb

Mark_LJ wrote:

Best advice so far is Jon_C as regards burden of proof in a civil court.

<snip>

Personally I would have thought that there would have been more evidence required i.e. seize the computer for examination to back up the download claims. Further examination might have assisted them to show exactly who was using the computer at the time of the alleged download.

Are they allowed to seize the computer in a civil case?

I would have though if the case went to court then it would be up to the defence to get the machine tested and confrimed by a forensics expert that there is nothing dodgy on it.

Hillfly

If your friend is sure he's innocent then he should hire a decent lawyer as he's likely to win his case and get his fees paid.

Tim_L

Sounds like a scam to me. Can you post the number on the letter so it can be checked out?

Any unsolicited message or letter requesting money with menaces is probably best considered to be a scam unless proven otherwise. Many people will pay £300 to avoid trouble, especially if they've been doing something marginal on-line, and these letters are designed to play on this. It may even be that the number is premium rate, so that you have to pay to contact them, or that someone may later bill you for talking to them in due course!

First thing to do is check out the details properly. If they don't check out, send the letter to the police. If they are correct, then write a letter explaining clearly that the software wasn't downloaded from the PC in question. Don't advance possible explanations, for example the unsecured radio network, just state that the assertions in the original letter are false. Send by registered post.

mr_fishbulb

ts_aly2000 wrote:

Also need to completely reformat and rebuild the PC. Unless this company is into military grade data recovery nothing will be proven, else just buy a fresh hard disk and hide the old one.

Why should they do that if they haven't done anything wrong?

wolfman

Also I think a log on a server showing your ip address isn't strong enough as evidence. Purely because what other people have mentioned (dynamic ips, unsecure wireless etc...), it leaves too much speculation.

Even if you did go there, I think (from what I've seen before) they have to prove you downloaded the whole thing.

ts_aly2000 wrote:

Having used computers since the 80's I'm aware of how easy they are to 'hack', we used to do it to each other at school, hence I'm not using my real name on here and I haven't given you my home address and telephone number either.

Obviously they help but I'd say are more related to social hacking, identity theft. You're computer leaves quite a helpful paper trail just from browsing as it is. Just from an ip address you can roughly pinpoint where someone lives.

Tim_L

Be careful, as there is some seriously bad advice being dished out here. "Reasonable doubt" is not the criteria - if this is not a scam (and every indication would seem to suggest it is - this would appear to be a civil claim for damages. "Reasonable doubt" is a criminal standard, not a civil standard.

Civil cases run on "Balance of probability", which is a lower standard of proof. It would become a question of balancing whatever information is available from the IP records with your friend's own assertions, and also perhaps the possibility of an infringement from an unsecured radio network connection.

If your friend destroys evidence or clears records on the PC, this will count against him when calculating the balance of probabilities - it is not the behaviour of someone with nothing to fear from an examination of the facts.

But as I say, there is a 95% probability that this is an opportunist scam, similar to phishing, sending an official looking communication out to catch people out.

Omertron

The ISP will log who is using what IP address at what time. Therefore if they are provided with the IP address and time the software was downloaded, they'll be able to identify the user.

As to whether having an unsecured network is defence for the download, as yourself this: If I left my front door open and unlocked and I was burgled, how likely is it that the insurance company would pay out?

Omertron

ts_aly2000 wrote:

:rotfl: Let's see it then?

http://www.visualroute.com/index.html

wolfman

Omertron wrote:

http://www.visualroute.com/index.html

http://www.seomoz.org/ip2loc/ip2loc.php

Don't know how accurate the above one is. There are plenty of others about. Ip's are region/location specific so you can work out roughly where someone is.

Problems arise though if they're on a vpn, or have extensive firewalls etc... It was just an example of one of many things you can do with an ip.

mr_fishbulb

Omertron wrote:

As to whether having an unsecured network is defence for the download, as yourself this: If I left my front door open and unlocked and I was burgled, how likely is it that the insurance company would pay out?

But if someone came into your house with a laptop and copied all your DVDs, would you be liable?