Save the Economy? SCRAP the NHS!

eco

The NHS is a wonderful service and I'm not just saying that cos my sis is a nurse, they work hard often on long shifts, like many people I would rather my NI contributions went to the NHS than MP's who are greedy.
My familys luckily haven't needed to use the NHS a lot but like many people when your mum is in having cancer treatment it makes you realise just how important it is to look after the service, but my dad was an alcoholic and it made my blood boil how the NHS looked after him, he drank like a fish even tho the doc said it would eventually kill him so the selfish !!!!!! carried on, and if I finish the sentence like I want I'll no doubt get told it's a disease he couldn't help it, well he could in my view. Rant over but the NHS needs more money so the MP's should donate money in.

Dithering_Dad

Generali wrote: »

That the UK has a better system for dealing with chronic illness than the US, doesn't make the NHS the best model for healthcare provision. The best way for the state to provide healthcare IMO is on a 'top-up' basis, that is the state will subsidise non-chronic and non-urgent treatments but you will be expected to chip in yourself.

I don't have a blinkered view of the NHS and I have travelled extensively and so I've seen the good and bad bits of other countries systems. All I know is that whenever we take our little girl into hospital (which happened even more than usual over the last two years), all I see are dedicated doctors and nurses who can't do enough for you. That they are lions led by sheep doesn't diminish their dedication.

snarffie

bendix wrote: »

You're asking the wrong person, pal.

My father died of leukaemia two weeks ago, aged 67. His entire treatment costs were covered by a comprehensive health insurance policy. There was never any hint from them that costs would not be borne through the policy.

I am truly sorry for your loss and wish you well.

I thought of leaving it at that, and I hate to follow this up with a contradictory post, but I think you are exactly the right person to ask.

If you had MISSED something in that policy and there was no cover, then he would have received no cover other than the NHS. I'm sure you appreciate that such a situation (with no NHS safety net) would have only been even more dreadful for you and your family.

Many people have insurance policies and don't realise that they are not fully covered for courses of chemotherapy or radiotherapy. Many are hoodwinked into signing up for poor insurance policies, and some people just don't have the nous to choose the right cover. Insurance is a pure money making business and nothing else. It doesn't have a conscience.

snarff.

Generali

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

I don't have a blinkered view of the NHS and I have travelled extensively and so I've seen the good and bad bits of other countries systems. All I know is that whenever we take our little girl into hospital (which happened even more than usual over the last two years), all I see are dedicated doctors and nurses who can't do enough for you. That they are lions led by sheep doesn't diminish their dedication.

I agree absolutely but I think it's necessary to separate the good bits of the NHS (normally the people) from the mediocre or bad (the system itself and the waste that occurs as a result of bad management).

My experience is that doctors and nurses are excellent in every health system I've used (and (I try not to use them if I can avoid it!). What varies are the systems of administration and the different charging schemes which then impact on how people use the health systems.

A&E in France and Australia were far more pleasant than A&E in the UK, for example. The doctors and nurses were equally professional and wonderful in all three cases. The difference I conclude is that the Aussie and French systems are better.

snarffie

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

I have always supported the NHS, but it really brings it home how lucky we are to have it when something happens to you or your children or your parents.

While I might complain about my taxes being spent on MPs expenses, wars, pointless government initiatives, etc. I'll never moan about paying towards health care or social benefits, because there but for the grace of god....

This is exactly how I feel.

We must be careful not to allow the vested interests to associate the waste in the NHS with all the worthless tax black holes/incompetent government decisions/rip-offs/scams that are flying around in the media at the moment.


Scumbag MP's screwing the tax-payer is a very different thing to an inefficient NHS.

Punish/vote out the MP's.
Make the NHS work better.

Dithering_Dad

Generali wrote: »

I agree absolutely but I think it's necessary to separate the good bits of the NHS (normally the people) from the mediocre or bad (the system itself and the waste that occurs as a result of bad management).

My experience is that doctors and nurses are excellent in every health system I've used (and (I try not to use them if I can avoid it!). What varies are the systems of administration and the different charging schemes which then impact on how people use the health systems.

A&E in France and Australia were far more pleasant than A&E in the UK, for example. The doctors and nurses were equally professional and wonderful in all three cases. The difference I conclude is that the Aussie and French systems are better.

Totally agree with everything you've said Gen.

bendix

snarffie wrote: »

If you had MISSED something in that policy and there was no cover, then he would have received no cover other than the NHS. I'm sure you appreciate that such a situation (with no NHS safety net) would have only been even more dreadful for you and your family.

Many people have insurance policies and don't realise that they are not fully covered for courses of chemotherapy or radiotherapy. Many are hoodwinked into signing up for poor insurance policies, and some people just don't have the nous to choose the right cover. Insurance is a pure money making business and nothing else. It doesn't have a conscience.

snarff.

And therein lies the rub, snarff. It's just not acceptable for a grown human being to NOT have the nous or the smarts to plan for eventualities. It's no excuse to say they are hoodwinked - what happened to personal responsibility?

This refrain is a constant on MSE, in the same way as it seems to be a constant in 2009 Britain. "It's not my fault .. . .I didn't know it when I signed it . . . .noone told me . . . . it's the company's fault ..." I mean, where does it stop? At what point in our recent history did the responsibility for our shortcomings and failures become someone else's concern? I'm genuinely baffled.

It's not just around health and health insurance, although I can't conceive of someone not having the gumption to ask basic questions. It's around debt, mortgages, pensions and god knows what.

I kinda get tired of hearing it.

setmefree2

Hi all:hello:

The SMF2s are overloaded with private health insurance. We have had it for decades through both mine and Mr SMF2's work. We have never used it once. We have only ever used the NHS. I had our kids on the NHS and our children have used the NHS. Our eldest son broke his collar bone badly last year and the service we got was outstanding.

Tbh I think our companies have been wasting their money contributing to private Health Plans on our behalf for decades - I'd rather have had the money:p

ShelleyC_2

I maybe biased as I work within the NHS but I don't begrudge a penny of my tax that goes to keep it running.

Yes some of its total bananas - policies for everything, with endless middle management, rounds of pointless meetings and glossy expensive leaflets & brochures produced at who knows what cost.

The vast majority of the clinical staff work blooming hard with the care of their patients their priority. I go in early everyday to get rubbish paperwork sorted so that patients are my priority once doors are open.

If you scrapped the NHS I'd have to find a job within some private company as the majority of patients would still need seeing. Sorry if it upsets those that rant about the level of pay but I expected I'd actually earn more money in the private sector as some friends working there already do :rotfl:

Mr_Mumble

Scrapping the NHS may save the economy but it wouldn't get the government out of its fiscal troubles. Spending on the NHS is projected to be £115bn this year while the deficit is £175bn. The enormity of Brown's bungling is mind-blowing.

If you want an affordable, efficient and world class health system then copying the world's best (according to WHO) is the way to go. Unfortunately you never hear about the Japanese health system. Why? It could be because the high capital expenditure, that leads to better health outcomes, means far less need for staff - the Japanese have fewer doctors and nurses per capita (despite an aging population) compared to most western health care systems. It simply isn't politically plausible for someone to say they're going to sack 100,000 nurses and 50,000 doctors and instead use the money on MRI, CAT and other technologies.

Greed is the largest problem in the system - not financial greed but generational greed. Its pretty evident that the world's third largest employer, the NHS, is unsustainable. The Chinese army and Indian train service are not blessed with gold-plated pensions! Its easy for folk to say the NHS isn't perfect but provides a decent enough service when they're only paying half the cost for the system. The rest is put on the never-never in the form of increased government debt and future promised pensions for the grandchildren to pay.