Solar Power - always a scam??

nearlynew

Cardew wrote: »

If you feel that security of supply to heat water etc justifies spending £thousands on solar, so be it, I suggest it is not an 'insurance policy' many people will take up.

Those of the tin-foil hat persuasion may think it is worth it (not that I am).

As BFG has said above, there are more reasons than money or the environment why people may be motivated to install solar systems.

What if you were building a house in a remote area for example and the cost of supplying mains services itself was prohibitive?

Could it make sense then?

BFG_2

nearlynew wrote: »

Firstly, I have not advocated anything.

Ok nearlynew, what are you saying then??

When you said earlier 'it's not all aout the savings' people rightly try to work out what else it could be and then critique these possible reasons; you then get miffed at this - so here's a suggestion......spell it out for us then!!! lol

Why do you have solar [do you have it?]

Is it a 'saving money' thing - Does it make sense economically for you?

Is it 'continuity of supply' thing- is that a big issue for you [remote location?]

Is it 'green thing'? - ???

If you're a fan of solar, then it would really help if you explained why you are.

The key questions to any user of solar are : "Would you advise others to have it ...and if so what would the scientifically valid reasons be?"

Mutleyk9

Thanks for your reply Cardew.

We are not on opposing sides here. One thing most of us have in common here is that we want to see the an end to all the lies and/or misleading statements the companies come out with.

As regards a vested interest, I do not work in the solar industry any more.

I was hoping that a system at around £3000 would save enough money to be a viable proposition. However if your figures are correct then it is not.

The very least I would like to do is get it across to the consumer that if they want solar heating installed then there is little or no benefit in paying £6000 + than there is paying £3000.

The company that you know as Simplee Solar use Ritter tubes www dot rittersolar.de/english/index_e.htm and they claim a 2kwh per annum yield from an 18 tube panel.

Mojisola

nearlynew wrote: »

Not if you have an off-grid system.

But most people will want to be connected to the grid to earn money from the excess electricity that's produced. That's one figure that's usually built into the calculations.

Mutleyk9

There are not than may PV installs in the UK.

Going back to the warranty Cardew. I meant that a 20 year guarantee on the main (costly) items of the system would be good if it could be warranty bonded by an underwriter. I am not sure if it is possible for solar heating.

Warranty bond because of the hit and run tactics and the frequent changing of name.

Also I would estimate that 90+% of the people who purchase solar heating are late 60's to late 70's.

I am not suggesting for one moment that they have not got all of their faculties but I do think that there is more chance of them being rail-roaded into purchase.

It would be better if there was a code of conduct (unlikely in this business) where no contract could be signed up unless there was a third party present (son/daughter/neighbour) who has the interests of the householder at heart.

Bob_the_Saver

BFG wrote: »

True or false?

Solar power doesn't work. Sorry what I mean is there are no solar power systems that are cost effective.

This means that by the very nature of the science, any company selling solar power systems are scammers.

They rely on blatant lies such as 'pays for itself in 6 months' or 'reduces your electricity and gas bills by 75%'

My DIY solar (hot water system) has paid for itself many times over. A water feed to the roof where there are two 2m long 100mm diameter drainpipes which I have painted black. Then a pipe runs down to a second shower head in the shower cubicle. Result = most days in the summer the water is hot for my shower, sometimes almost too hot. It's saved me a fortune.
PS. We're in the South of France

BFG_2

ASA has just found a solar scam firm to be 'misleading' [ie lying to55ers] wrt

1. "Payback in 6-12 years, depending on usage. Sooner if oil & gas prices keep rising";

2. "Return on investment 8-12%"


full findings

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_46623.htm

yakky58

Whilst this is a money saving web site I thought the purpose of the forum was an area of discussion where people were free to ask questions and get responses in a positive way. What I see here is people on a soap box preaching. Read back out loud what you write, would you like someone saying that to you?

I have solar PV and solar DHW. I was not deluded into believing that the figures quoted would start saving me money after 8 years. In fact the majority of the cost the firms laid out was in the installation and labour costs. I off set that by doing most of the work myself. They supplied most of the parts and I was careful in the choice of product to the extent that I paid more for better quality. I chose German or Japanese products which had a long warantee and had better infomation on test results.

I installed in April 2006. So far I have generated nearly 8 megawatts on the PV and export over 4 of those. This year I qualified for 3 ROCs which Southern & Scottish took off me and applied over $150 yto my account. The DHW seems to be less cost effective, however, saying that the company who supplied me called in Nov 2008 saying they were defective and replaced/installed for free. I don't count that as 'cowboy' tactics.

On average I get 2 and bit megawatts a year on an annual usage of 5 megawatts, (low uasge due to low wattage bulbs and switching things off). I worked out, with my simple maths, 2 megawatts in 5 is about 40%. That is pretty good to me.

If that remains payback on PV is about 10 years on the cost I spent on equipment, I count my time as free. I accept that DHW is much longer than that. However, all I can say is the tubes I have do work in the winter, no they don't replace the gas but they do heat the water to some extent and the estimated Gas usage is always about 50/60 units more that actual usage.

When I get some time I'll plug in the actual Gas figures.

BFG_2

Yakky58,

at the risk of 'preaching', I'm not sure what you're saying???

reading your post you seem to be happy to spend money on something which delivers no discernible benefit to you [either financial or green]?

I'm pleased that you're happy and satisified, however people should be aware that the solar companies tend not to use 'happy' as a reason to buy their kits; instead they use lies about payback and ROI - it's that scam that I 'preach' about.

I'm not looking to dis your installation or motives - so long as people know why they are doing something, then rock on.

Cardew

Yakky58,
As a fan of solar, your posts have always been balanced and fair, without the silly claims often made.

However I have to agree with BFG that solar energy is sold to the general public as money saving - and it simply ain't true.

Also, whist you may have had a good experience with the installer, many haven't. I have read that it is the No1 area for complaints to trading standard offices and there have been several Watchdog type programs on the methods employed by some firms.

I know we have had this discussion before, but you(using a great deal of self help) have spent several £thousands and your savings won't even cover the lost interest on that money let alone pay back your investment - and let us not forget that you know what you are talking about with solar - and are not some innocent ready to be ripped off.

P.S.
Would it not be easier for the non-technical for you to use kWh - as that is the measure used in their bills?