Solar Power - always a scam??

Mankysteve

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Obviously solar PV is a new technology, but do we have any indication of the Mean Time To Failure ( serious overhaul) figures ?

PV is not a new technology it been around for a few decades now. I cant find any exact numbers but 20 years is not unheard off. Biggest failure of older panels was not the electronics themselves but they layer of plastic on top them reacting with Uv light and turning opaque thus greatly reducing there capacity. This has since been solved.

Forgot to mention most manufactures give 20year guarantees on new panels it usually the Inverter that fail i think I've read around 7 years or so between replacement and there not cheap so this must be taken into consideration.

Cardew

noncom wrote: »

I've found a few companies who offer a 10-yr insurance backed guarantee on the whole installation. Now, as I haven't had quotes yet, I haven't seen the small print, but this seems more reasonable for such an investment, and obviously significantly better than you get for most goods (including very high cost goods like cars) and more in line with Building guarantees such as roofing etc. The Insured element of it also offers a measure of protection against suppliers going out of business for any reason.

Have you seen any detail of which insurance company is backing this scheme etc?

If it is a reputable main line insurance company they will demand the companies pay a sizeable bond(premium).

Solar PV companies have to be MCS certified if their customers are to get FITs. I can find nothing in the MCS certification about this 10 year guarantee.

http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/Becoming+MCS+Certificated/Installer+Certification?pgid=243

noncom_2

I'm not going to name the companies concerned (particularly as I haven't even had them round for quotes yet) but at least one offers a guarantee with the Independent Warranty Association (iwa.biz). If you know of any reason why this shouldn't be trustworthy, please do tell me.

And no, it's not mentioned on the MCS site. Why would it be? (Whether the MCS SHOULD insist on longer warranties is another debate, but for now it doesn't). But if a company chooses to offer one, in order to give customers peace of mind and engender trust, what is the problem? (And yes, I know that somewhere in the installation cost I would be paying for the warranty as well, but I'm smart enough to factor that in when comparing quotes....)

Mankysteve

If you want FITs the panel must be approved. along with the install and such.

Cardew

noncom wrote: »

I'm not going to name the companies concerned (particularly as I haven't even had them round for quotes yet) but at least one offers a guarantee with the Independent Warranty Association (iwa.biz). If you know of any reason why this shouldn't be trustworthy, please do tell me.

And no, it's not mentioned on the MCS site. Why would it be? (Whether the MCS SHOULD insist on longer warranties is another debate, but for now it doesn't). But if a company chooses to offer one, in order to give customers peace of mind and engender trust, what is the problem? (And yes, I know that somewhere in the installation cost I would be paying for the warranty as well, but I'm smart enough to factor that in when comparing quotes....)

I was simply posing the question about the 10 year warranty - I have no knowledge of the organization - having never heard of them.

Their website gives little detail.

noncom_2

Please state your questions explicity and I will ask them when I meet the Solar company's rep on Thursday!

I've not dealt with this Warranty Company before, but I have experience of Insurance Backed Guarantees with other household work, and can't see a reason to be inherently mistrustful of it. Never had to claim on it yet, mind, so maybe I'd find out the hard way if I did.....!

But, since you appear to be of a somewhat cynical disposition, Cardew, please do outline exactly what you would ask the rep of a company offering such a warranty. I have my own list of questions already, naturally, but am always happy to enquire about anything that hasn't occurred to me and post back the answers.

John_Pierpoint

Here are some of the less usual questions I would need to ask:

1. What councils if any have managed to block the installation on planning or buildings regulations basis?

2. Have you installed this technology in buildings that also incorporate large electric motors that use inverter technology? (I'm thinking of installing a heat pump and inverter technology has been known to bring a sweat to the brow of the operators of Britain's obsolescent electricity grids - perhaps just a case of "not invented here").

3. Are the panels mounted on a rigid long life self supporting structure (aluminium beams?). In my case my 30 degree roof was originally slated and has been recovered in interlocking concrete tiles - It is already probably a bit over loaded so the panels would need to span from ridge to verge to avoid the risk of sagging at mid span.

4. Which of the organisations is certifying your work and how many installations have you done since receiving your certificate of competence?

The actual answers to these questions would be interesting, but the real objective would be to see if the representative is an engineer or a second hand car sales man.

Cardew

noncom wrote: »

Please state your questions explicity and I will ask them when I meet the Solar company's rep on Thursday!

I've not dealt with this Warranty Company before, but I have experience of Insurance Backed Guarantees with other household work, and can't see a reason to be inherently mistrustful of it. Never had to claim on it yet, mind, so maybe I'd find out the hard way if I did.....!

But, since you appear to be of a somewhat cynical disposition, Cardew, please do outline exactly what you would ask the rep of a company offering such a warranty. I have my own list of questions already, naturally, but am always happy to enquire about anything that hasn't occurred to me and post back the answers.

Not just my cynicism! The whole area of extended warranties has come in for criticism in the past - as Google will confirm.

The Office of Fair Trading referred the £800m market for extended warranties to the Competition Commission last July after its own study found that competition in the market did not appear to be working effectively and that consumers were not adequately informed or protected.

In particular the extended warranties on secondhand cars have been reported many times as being a waste of time.

I would want to know what exclusions were in the policy. Does it cover just the panels or the complete system - mounts/cables/electronics etc.

Doubtless there will be a 'fair wear and tear' provision - Definition of fair?

Is there an excess on the policy?

Ceiling on claims?

For instance, from what I have read there is a good chance that the very expensive inverter will need replacing within 10 years at a cost of £??hundreds.

If that is true, would the inverter and fitting be covered?

noncom_2

Thanks to both above. I will keep those in mind for our meetings on Thursday.

craftymummy_2

You would be better off going to the MCS website and finding the nearest approved installer to your home address. A salesman cannot undertake the full MCS survey necessary to produce the MCS approved quotation. Salesmen are the blight of the renewable industry, most of the complaints are about sales techniques.
Find yourself an MCS approved company who sends out a qualified engineer to do a survey not a double glazing salesman wearing a new hat.
Keep away from the national companies. Most smaller MCS approved companies have other satisfied customers you can contact and smaller companies without salesmen are more dependant on their reputation.
My husband is an MCS approved installer for both solars and heat pumps , his electrical installations are guaranteed for six years with the ECA warranty scheme.
And no I am not touting for work for him , it would be nice if he was at home sometimes ! In the past few weeks he has been in Derbyshire, Conwys and Worcester which are all a long way from our home.
My advice is to use the MCS approved company that is nearest to you.