The recession, benefits, the safety net, and the learning curve

Mr_Falling_Star

I have come out with this before on these forums but I think it still holds true. There are no secrets about benefits, the rules and rates are there for all to see, If you don't think you can live on it then you should do something about it eg take out a insurance policy or save up before you need to use them.

People say the benefit rates are to low, I think they are are about right (with a possible increase for single people and for couples). Millions of people live on them, albeit frugally, so the argument that they are not enough to live on is spurious. What you are saying is that they are not enough to live on living my current lifestyle.

For hard core benefit claimants I would suggest intensive help, support and nagging. People who have been unemployed for a year or more should be signing every day, ESA claimants should go get second and third opinions on their illness and given light jobs if they claim after a certain period has elapsed (unless really disabled). For claimants with children I would suggest that the state pays for any children you already have when starting claiming plus one (as accidents can always happen)

I have seen that in the US people who use A+E depts regulary every week are given intensive help to keep them out of hospital. Maybe something could be considered here in respect of those benefit claimants who take up a lot of time, support and money.

Graham_Devon

oneeye1 wrote: »

keep yer gob shut then

Ooooo! I do feel quite the bad boy now

baileysbattlebus

I am in favour of a benefits system, but tend to lean towards the Frank Field view that there should a 2 tier system, one rate for those who have contributed to the system like Max and oneeye1 and one rate for those who haven't.

And before anyone says anything about children - there is child benefit and child tax credits to help with the expense.

Perhaps even a return to earnings related JSA which would mean there wasn't such a drastic drop in income for people. Where people would be paid, say half of their salary for a while. Most people in Max's position will not be out of work for years.

We would be in similar position - except we still have a mortgage plus gas and electric bills of £90 each a month.

The couples allowance would allow us to keep a roof over our heads, pay the gas and electric and nothing else. No money for food, no water bill, no insurances etc.

I personally don't know anyone on benefits but I see plenty of young women in our nearest town (Reading) pushing buggies around, you see the same one's every day - I assume they don't work.

mewbie_2

Great opening post Max, a wake up call for those of us who haven't had the bad news yet and an en eye opener to those nieve enough to think a life of luxury on benefits can be had.

I won't bother with the usual mewbie stuff - just wish you the best of luck in finding something fast.

Pobby

Max I really do hope that life takes a very positive turn for you. Yes the level of jsa is pathetic.

We were just talking about someone we know. On planned baby number 3, this single mother is able to afford driving lessons. I find that in stark contrast to what Max is entitled to. Did I read somewhere that tax credits can be claimed up to a family income of £66,000? Total madness.

oneeye1

Pobby wrote: »

. Did I read somewhere that tax credits can be claimed up to a family income of £66,000? Total madness.

maybe but when i was working my wage was around 18000 qand i got £ 88/month w.t.c

baileysbattlebus

Pobby wrote: »

Max I really do hope that life takes a very positive turn for you. Yes the level of jsa is pathetic.

We were just talking about someone we know. On planned baby number 3, this single mother is able to afford driving lessons. I find that in stark contrast to what Max is entitled to. Did I read somewhere that tax credits can be claimed up to a family income of £66,000? Total madness.

Isn't that child tax credits - it's not working tax credits, my daughter (single parent) has a basic salary of £22k, she gets £0 working tax credit but does get child tax credit.

PasturesNew

If there are any programmers here ... the figures are easy to work out as they're on sites like entitledto ... but it'd be interesting to see the whole calculations laid out on one page with some sliders, so it could be seen from one browser page (without scrolling) how much could be obtained, for what - and how different working hours/rates, etc affect/change that. By the time you get to the end of entitledto you can't go back and compare another dataset easily.

Must be somebody here interested enough and with the skillz

Pobby

Thanks BB. I didn`t quite get that correct.

longtimelurker_2

This is all very interesting and I agree the system is inadequate. There are so many ways to fall between cracks.

Take for example a friend's situation:

Part of a couple and one is a student and the other a graduate. (This happens a lot due to gap years, longer courses for one partner etc.) They have just graduated in the current climate and have been unable to find a job. They didn't have contributions from their time as a student, therefore JSA has to be means-tested. They live with their partner, and were honest in declaring it so the student loan is taken as income. The loan is around £4500 a year, which is just shy of "what the government thinks a couple can live on" (government's wording apparently). They were awarded £4 a week JSA. Council tax and housing benefit can take up to 6 months to sort out. This is really not livable for two adults is it? Their 'income' is a loan and they're having to rely on more credit to tide them over.

Yet if they defrauded, pretended they didn't live together... etc etc.

There is no safety net, it's just NO USE in the short term.