The recession, benefits, the safety net, and the learning curve

oneeye1

mitchaa wrote: »

Come on then, please explain as frankly you are talking rubbish.

CB = £20pw for 1st child and £13.20 for every child thereafter, so straight away you have £33.20

Evidence here...

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/TaxCreditsandChildBenefit/Childbenefits/DG_073828

Lets move onto the very very rewarding CTC system. A couple out of work with no earned income will get £2235pa per child and an additional £545 for family element.

Evidence here.....

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/taxcredits.htm

£2235+£2235+£545 = £5015. £5015/52 = £96.44pw

So far that is £5,015 in CTC and £1,726 in CB or in weekly terms (£33.20+£96.44) £130pw in child related benefits. (£101pw????)

Then we have your out of work benefits? Couples JSA as you rightly put it is payable at £101pw. Evidence here...

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/Employedorlookingforwork/DG_10018757

You have already stated you receive CTB at £25pw which works out at £1300pa

Total so far = £13,293 or £255pw

£5015 in CTC
£1726 in CB
£5252 in JSA
£1300 in CTB

Do you live in a tent? If not, where do you live as you have clearly made no mention of housing benefit or LHA? Up my neck of the woods a 3bed LHA rate is going to cost around £200pw, so there is another £10.5k to add to the above.

What about milk tokens, free school dinners, prescriptions, dental???

£101pw my ar*e!!:mad:

I wish i was homed for free and had no council tax liability. I wish i could walk into my dentist and get my fillings for free.

Typical benefit claimant thinking that 1. If it doesn't hit the bank account, its not a benefit:rolleyes:

Ill tell you what matey, a lot of hard working families would love to have your level of disposable income left over after paying housing and council tax charges. (Proven above to be around £1,000 pm)

I cant wait to hear your counter argument:D Im still in shock that you believe all that you get is £101 pw:rotfl:

apart from jsa and ctb you get the rest when you are working which by the way your worship untill jan this year had done every week since leaving school in april 79 and more than paid my way in society. homed for free who told you that ive never missed a mortgage or before that a rent payment or for any other bill i have incurred thats never. i never invented the child tax or working tax credits or for that matter matey did i ever ask for them no i just for 29 years and 8 months worked and paid all thats all my taxes and n.i so matey for me to now run my house on my 101 = 25 is very difficult ok

oneeye1

wolvoman wrote: »

post of the week right there.

£101 doesn't buy a lot of booze and fags though does it?

t .i .t. No it dont feed put clothes on kids back pay electric and gas either your pratt

JayScottGreenspan

oneeye1 wrote: »

t .i .t. No it dont feed put clothes on kids back pay electric and gas either your pratt

Agreed.

An amazingly restrained post under the cirumstances.

mitchaa

oneeye1 wrote: »

apart from jsa and ctb you get the rest when you are working which by the way your worship untill jan this year had done every week since leaving school in april 79 and more than paid my way in society. homed for free who told you that ive never missed a mortgage or before that a rent payment or for any other bill i have incurred thats never. i never invented the child tax or working tax credits or for that matter matey did i ever ask for them no i just for 29 years and 8 months worked and paid all thats all my taxes and n.i so matey for me to now run my house on my 101 = 25 is very difficult ok

I feel for you, but i was merely pointing out that with child related benefits on top then your weekly income is more than just the £101pw combined JSA that you claimed it to be. (£130 in child benefits + your £101pw JSA)

I was unsure of your housing arrangements, but added the example of what someone in your position would be entitled too. Add it all up and it comes to quite a substantial amount.

You are correct, you would be entitled to CB of £33pw regardless if you were working or not, but CTC is not the same, as that is dependent on your income. As to housing costs and council tax benefit, again that is dependent on your income. My brother has an income of only £18k pa and he does not receive HB or CTB for example. (£550 rent, £125 council tax, and he's only left with £525) £18k is said to be around a median average wage

I think the point i was making is that there are families out there that choose this way of life in order to reap the financial rewards and i think everyone is in agreement that an income of the equivalent of £30k is a hell of a lot for doing, well, nothing.

Apologies for what appeared to be a nasty post on my behalf, its just the system that annoys the life out of me.

oneeye1

mitchaa wrote: »

I feel for you, but i was merely pointing out that with child related benefits on top then your weekly income is more than just the £101pw combined JSA that you claimed it to be. (£130 in child benefits + your £101pw JSA)

I was unsure of your housing arrangements, but added the example of what someone in your position would be entitled too. Add it all up and it comes to quite a substantial amount.

You are correct, you would be entitled to CB of £33pw regardless if you were working or not, but CTC is not the same, as that is dependent on your income. As to housing costs and council tax benefit, again that is dependent on your income. My brother has an income of only £18k pa and he does not receive HB or CTB for example. (£550 rent, £125 council tax, and he's only left with £525) £18k is said to be around a median average wage

I think the point i was making is that there are families out there that choose this way of life in order to reap the financial rewards and i think everyone is in agreement that an income of the equivalent of £30k is a hell of a lot for doing, well, nothing.

Apologies for what appeared to be a nasty post on my behalf, its just the system that annoys the life out of me.

believe me its not a good existance downright demoralising and when you have to stop the little pleasures in life like a newspaper its sad, i keep a phone and internet connection for job seeking purposes only and when mot and tax and insurance is due on car it suddenley seems outrageousely expensive .yes you do sound mean or at the least mean spirited but eh you have to live with yourself thankfully i dont you could hook up with wolvoman you 2 seem to have a lot in common .hope never to see you on the dole q its not nice

Austin_Allegro

Part of the problem is because when the Welfare State was set up in the 1940s it was 'sold' to the British public as a form of insurance (as the name National Insurance would suggest) in a way that the working people would understand - a sort of nationalised Christmas Club if you like. The fact is it was never intended to be like that. When you pay your stamp you are paying for those claiming from the system NOW - not saving up an account for your future.

This is kept quiet though, for obvious reasons. When people find out, like the OP, how the system really works it is understandably enraging.

My view is the system won't ever change until the money runs out, a point that we are getting closer and closer to as the productive tax base is squeezed tighter (50% taxes etc) and the non-productive 'Shameless' classes of the Labour client state increase exponentially.

It won't change because nobody wants to confront the ugly political realities of this danegeld being paid to keep the masses quiet, nor the related issues of uncontrolled immigration. Just raising topics like this causes a sharp intake of liberal breath. The only bright point is knowing that the system will eventually collapse under its own weight, but that's only about the same consolation that one gets from knowing a seriously ill loved one will eventually have their suffering ended by death.

Sorry to be gloomy but that's how I see it!

Graham_Devon

oneeye1 wrote: »

apart from jsa and ctb you get the rest when you are working which by the way your worship untill jan this year had done every week since leaving school in april 79 and more than paid my way in society. homed for free who told you that ive never missed a mortgage or before that a rent payment or for any other bill i have incurred thats never. i never invented the child tax or working tax credits or for that matter matey did i ever ask for them no i just for 29 years and 8 months worked and paid all thats all my taxes and n.i so matey for me to now run my house on my 101 = 25 is very difficult ok

I'm still none the wiser.

oneeye1

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I'm still none the wiser.

keep yer gob shut then

chupov

Austin_Allegro wrote: »

Part of the problem is because when the Welfare State was set up in the 1940s it was 'sold' to the British public as a form of insurance (as the name National Insurance would suggest) in a way that the working people would understand - a sort of nationalised Christmas Club if you like. The fact is it was never intended to be like that. When you pay your stamp you are paying for those claiming from the system NOW - not saving up an account for your future.

This is kept quiet though, for obvious reasons. When people find out, like the OP, how the system really works it is understandably enraging.

My view is the system won't ever change until the money runs out, a point that we are getting closer and closer to as the productive tax base is squeezed tighter (50% taxes etc) and the non-productive 'Shameless' classes of the Labour client state increase exponentially.

It won't change because nobody wants to confront the ugly political realities of this danegeld being paid to keep the masses quiet, nor the related issues of uncontrolled immigration. Just raising topics like this causes a sharp intake of liberal breath. The only bright point is knowing that the system will eventually collapse under its own weight, but that's only about the same consolation that one gets from knowing a seriously ill loved one will eventually have their suffering ended by death.

Sorry to be gloomy but that's how I see it!

Too right. You used to get 'stamps' for every month you worked and payed your dues so as to get full unemployment benefit for the same amount of time.

They did away with that a good few years ago!

Now its all about getting the workers to subsidise those who dont want to work. The safety net thing is rubbish. This guys best bet is to get on the sick pronto.

Trouble is more and more are catching on to the fact they dont need to work and then we need to soak the workers to pay the bankers and all that luvverly public sector borrowing too. Its not going to be pretty!

Max_Headroom_3

Austin_Allegro wrote: »

Part of the problem is because when the Welfare State was set up in the 1940s it was 'sold' to the British public as a form of insurance (as the name National Insurance would suggest) in a way that the working people would understand - a sort of nationalised Christmas Club if you like. The fact is it was never intended to be like that. When you pay your stamp you are paying for those claiming from the system NOW - not saving up an account for your future.

This is kept quiet though, for obvious reasons. When people find out, like the OP, how the system really works it is understandably enraging.

I have/had no problem with the fact that it wasn't an insurance scheme, and no problem that my money wasn't being "stored up for me", but was being used for those who needed it at the time.

My problem is that now I come to need it, I find I'm excluded from it, at least at a level that will even fund the most basic existence, such as being able to eat.

Combine that with the fact that whilst I'm struggling, it's clear many do, and have, made a fairly cozy existence for themselves out of it and I quickly come to the conclusion that something is very very wrong here...