The recession, benefits, the safety net, and the learning curve

Oldernotwiser

Max_Headroom wrote: »

Meanwhile, Working Max, 25 years in employment and now out of work is hunting desperately for a job and receives £63 plus a bit toward council tax.

Not enough to even eat.

Fair? Forget fair, remotely reasonable even..?

I'm really sorry you're finding it difficult to get a job but there's no need to exaggerate, it doesn't help your argument at all!

oneeye1

Max_Headroom wrote: »

I have/had no problem with the fact that it wasn't an insurance scheme, and no problem that my money wasn't being "stored up for me", but was being used for those who needed it at the time.

My problem is that now I come to need it, I find I'm excluded from it, at least at a level that will even fund the most basic existence, such as being able to eat.

Combine that with the fact that whilst I'm struggling, it's clear many do, and have, made a fairly cozy existence for themselves out of it and I quickly come to the conclusion that something is very very wrong here...

max it is wrong hope your fortune changes soon and you dont need the system good luck

oneeye1

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I'm really sorry you're finding it difficult to get a job but there's no need to exaggerate, it doesn't help your argument at all!

you sound nice your user name sums you up

SingleSue

SunnySusie wrote: »

I often have this argument whilst watching "Secret Millionaire". You know the bit where millionaire gets their £60 to live on for the week and my partner always goes "that's loads" and I stick up for those living on that and try to say it isn't that much.

Perhaps you can settle that argument? Where does that money go? I eat off about £30 a week. Not because I have to, my disposable income (whilst I have my job!) is thankfully comfortable, but because I have simple tastes.

And that's without really trying, so I still have some Gu as a treat, a bottle of wine, sometimes bacon, maybe even a steak some weeks!

I can do a big bowl of pasta, fresh veg, etc which can be split up frozen and fill me for 5 odd portions for a few pounds. Fresh fruit and veg from the market, big supermarket bags of pasta and rice, it doesn't have to cost that much. Plenty of threads on this very forum for eating GOOD meals for less money. Good healthy food is actually cheaper than processed rubbish.

FWIW The best argument I come up with is the whole "if my roof falls off" one that you mentioned too .

Best of luck with the job hunting.

The £60 Max mentions would have to pay his gas, electric, water, television license, telephone and fuel for a car plus food which as someone who has been working all his life, would quite rightly probably already have and would possibly be held into contracts for.

Oldernotwiser

oneeye1 wrote: »

you sound nice your user name sums you up

That's witty; how long did that take you?

Snooze

The whole welfare system in this country needs scrapping and starting again, with someone in charge that can see straight through all the 'bad back' and 'accidental pregnancy x5' bullsh!t. The way it stands at the moment you may as well just chuck your tax and NI money in the nearest fire because you'll never see any of it when you need it, as you have found out Max.

I've no doubt my flak jacket will take yet another battering from the 'welfare apologists' that can't see past the end of their noses but the simple solution on an individual level is to not pay anything into 'the system' in the first place and keep that money off radar in a secret location that only you know about. I appreciate this is both illegal and pretty difficult to do when you're on payroll but all the evidence is there to show that you're all being taken for one huge ride and the reality of this is now hitting home now that jobs are going out of the window. It will also come as a huge reality shock to a whole bunch of others come retirement as well, suddenly finding themselves trying to figure out how they're going to live on the State £2.50 per week for the rest of their natural's.

I can't really offer you any 'useful' advice as such Max, I guess I'm just sounding off about the corrupt system but if the !!!!!! really hits the fan at your end and you're looking at being 'roofless' let me know as I can offer you some of that on a short term basis at least.

R

PasturesNew

I guess a basic single life costs slightly different depending on a few variables. Assuming there is a taxed/insured/able vehicle outside with nothing to pay for another year, just cost of fuel to put in it and no breakdowns or breakdown cover, then the costs are a bit lower than if any of those need to be paid for again

£64/week becomes £277/month.

£15 - TV license
£40 - water rates (could be £20 if on a meter)
£50 - combined gas/electricity and combinations/variations thereof
£20 - newspapers/stamps etc for job hunting
£20 - misc essential transport needs
£10 - basic mobile phone
£15 - internet for job hunting
£15 - landline charge
£82 - food
£10 - contents insurance
====
£277

So that's all your money gone to sit in a home, buy newspapers etc to look for jobs, get online to look for jobs, be able to travel for essential jobcentre signing on and food shopping whether by public transport or fuel for a vehicle. £0 left over.

The problem comes when the car tax/MoT/insurance are due, or the car breaks and is needed on standby for job interviews that aren't on transport routes. Also, you still have to pay for a dentist (on paper it's free, but you'd have to find an NHS dentist first which can be impossible/up to 100 miles in some places).

Existing commitments are an issue too, e.g. phone contracts etc

If you are a home owner, you also have to pay buildings insurance (£10-20/month) and boiler/similar insurances (£10-15) and you have all the maintenance ... although you can get away with most of this most of the time, after a year there's bound to be some things that you just can't get fixed.

As a single person, unemployed, looking for work, there isn't any spare is there.

cocktail

Snooze wrote: »

The whole welfare system in this country needs scrapping and starting again, with someone in charge that can see straight through all the 'bad back' and 'accidental pregnancy x5' bullsh!t. The way it stands at the moment you may as well just chuck your tax and NI money in the nearest fire because you'll never see any of it when you need it, as you have found out Max.

I've no doubt my flak jacket will take yet another battering from the 'welfare apologists' that can't see past the end of their noses but the simple solution on an individual level is to not pay anything into 'the system' in the first place and keep that money off radar in a secret location that only you know about. I appreciate this is both illegal and pretty difficult to do when you're on payroll but all the evidence is there to show that you're all being taken for one huge ride and the reality of this is now hitting home now that jobs are going out of the window. It will also come as a huge reality shock to a whole bunch of others come retirement as well, suddenly finding themselves trying to figure out how they're going to live on the State £2.50 per week for the rest of their natural's.

I can't really offer you any 'useful' advice as such Max, I guess I'm just sounding off about the corrupt system but if the !!!!!! really hits the fan at your end and you're looking at being 'roofless' let me know as I can offer you some of that on a short term basis at least.

R

the whole thing is a big ponzi. ultimately the system has to collapse. imagine if unemplyment were to rise further and the state has to subsidise everyones food, shelter, heating/children, holidays, plasma tellies, wine/cider/red bulls.

Oldernotwiser

PasturesNew wrote: »

I guess a basic single life costs slightly different depending on a few variables. Assuming there is a taxed/insured/able vehicle outside with nothing to pay for another year, just cost of fuel to put in it and no breakdowns or breakdown cover, then the costs are a bit lower than if any of those need to be paid for again

£64/week becomes £277/month.

£15 - TV license
£40 - water rates (could be £20 if on a meter)
£50 - combined gas/electricity and combinations/variations thereof
£20 - newspapers/stamps etc for job hunting
£20 - misc essential transport needs
£10 - basic mobile phone
£15 - internet for job hunting
£15 - landline charge
£82 - food
£10 - contents insurance
====
£277

So that's all your money gone to sit in a home, buy newspapers etc to look for jobs, get online to look for jobs, be able to travel for essential jobcentre signing on and food shopping whether by public transport or fuel for a vehicle. £0 left over.

The problem comes when the car tax/MoT/insurance are due, or the car breaks and is needed on standby for job interviews that aren't on transport routes. Also, you still have to pay for a dentist (on paper it's free, but you'd have to find an NHS dentist first which can be impossible/up to 100 miles in some places).

Existing commitments are an issue too, e.g. phone contracts etc

If you are a home owner, you also have to pay buildings insurance (£10-20/month) and boiler/similar insurances (£10-15) and you have all the maintenance ... although you can get away with most of this most of the time, after a year there's bound to be some things that you just can't get fixed.

As a single person, unemployed, looking for work, there isn't any spare is there.

But the amounts you've suggested are what someone might spend who was earning a reasonable wage; obviously one would have to cut back if unemployed. If you posted that as part of a SOA on the DFW Board they'd probably be able to halve it.

PasturesNew

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

But the amounts you've suggested are what someone might spend who was earning a reasonable wage; obviously one would have to cut back if unemployed. If you posted that as part of a SOA on the DFW Board they'd probably be able to halve it.

A lot of it is fixed/can't be cut back ... and not everybody knows how to cut it back much further.

I think the above is fairly typical. My water in a bedsit was £40/month, and it took 2-3 months to get permission to have a meter, and for the little man to come and fit one.

These things aren't overnight.

And it's very isolating being single and unemployed. You've nobody to share the bad times with. You're sat there, alone, feeling cut off from society and useless.