The recession, benefits, the safety net, and the learning curve

ceridwen

i8change wrote: »

Benefits are temporary in some countries, this is from a Spanish forum (friends over there have said the same) You rely on family after that!:-

http://www.seg-social.es/Internet_6/Trabajadores/PrestacionesPension10935/index.htm
.

I'm afraid I still cant judge - as, on clicking the link, it was only available in Catalan - which I dont speak.

So - I see the point - but I'm still not clear as to whether those benefits were only temporary to your friend because he isnt a "national". It may be that the Spanish themselves get benefits for however long they need to. Its perfectly fair enough for any country (hint - Britain - hint!)to not hand over benefits automatically to anyone entering the country - we shouldnt either...unless they can prove they are a "genuine" political refugee - and not an economic migrant.

ceridwen

PasturesNew wrote: »

Two flaws:
1] If he could get a job, any job, then he'd have more than £60/week to live on and there wouldn't be any hardship
2] Camping/camper van and you go completely off the radar, no address - without an address life just gets harder. Where are your bank statements to go to? Job applications returns?


He's probably put a lot of time/effort/money into getting his house just how he likes it. Any other one just wouldn't be the same and he'd have to spend a lot more time/effort/money knocking it about a little bit.

Overall, to STR would be the wrong thing to do.



Yes it does matter if you've just invested 10-15-20 years of your entire being and soul into building yourself a nice little house you love.


It wasn't about helping home owners, per se, it was about how little a single person, who is a home owner, with no children, gets after a lifetime of contributing.

Good points - all of them Pastures.

One other "tiny little" point - NOT! - is that we are all now at the start of a major seachange in Society - courtesy of Peak Oil/Climate Change. This is NOT a good point in History to give up any house/land asset one has - on the understanding with oneself that one will get an equivalent back again later. We dont know what LATER will be like - all we know is it will be VERY different to how Society currently is.

At this moment in History one safeguards ones property assets - certainly NOT STR (presumably "Sell to Rent").

ceridwen

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Frequently temporary and only for those who've been working for some time (5 years is common).

Very relevant to this discussion is the fact that in many countries, the value of any property is taken into account when assessing eligibility.

Prove it!

As I've already stated - the Americans I quoted your comment at along these lines quickly told me how wrong that was.:rolleyes: They werent very happy with you for stating that inaccuracy about their country.

ceridwen

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

They don't ask for proof in the absolute way you mean it, but you do have to attend regularly with details of what your job seeking activities have been. That's not the case if you go in and say that you lost your job 2 months ago and now you'd like your backdated money. You could've been doing anything in that period, for all they know.

...and you could have been keeping the proof that you HAD been "actively seeking work" - therefore fulfilling the criteria now that its been renamed "Jobseekers Allowance". So - whats the difference between me, for instance, claiming as from Day 1 and keeping the proof of all the jobs I apply for and me claiming from Day X (having kept the proof of all the jobs I applied for)?

Its just one date - rather than another - on the DWP computer. A few little figures...no more/no less.

Of course - its a great excuse by the DWP not to pay benefit due:rolleyes: - wonder what others they have?

sammyjammy

I'm sure its far from perfect but to me the benefits system in Germany is interesting, if someone loses their job they get so many weeks at 90 % of their earnings which reduces gradually until it gets to the basic means tested level, they also do not pay extra for any children born after benefits started.

ceridwen

The German system sounds a LOT better then:
- both the near normal money to start with - only gradually reducing

and

- the refusal to pay for children born after benefit claim started (presumably they mean ones "conceived" - rather than actually "born") - but I guess, even if they dont, then I would imagine most of us have some sort of inkling at least 9 months before our job goes that it might do so in the future.

camngnp223

What a salutary thread!

Cam

mewbie_2

camngnp223 wrote: »

What a salutary thread!

Cam

If we're going to have one of these threads every time an MSEer gets laid off it could be a long summer.

PasturesNew

I have a single friend in the US, when he was in his 40s he was laid off after 14 years in the same job (paying about £14k/year). He had 6 months of benefits, then nothing. He had to cash in his 401k (pension) - and pay back the tax-free portion of that to the Govt - and he was then expected to live on the remains of his 401k. Then the 401k ran out, he had no job, he just had enough money in his bank to cover his rent and he was about to commit suicide once that ran out.

Luckily he got some temp work, then a permanent job, then got laid off from that, then he got more temp work ... but now every week he is telling me how many more people they laid off at his job that week. He's quite worried, no savings again. No 401k this time.

olly300

ceridwen wrote: »

I'm afraid I still cant judge - as, on clicking the link, it was only available in Catalan - which I dont speak.

So - I see the point - but I'm still not clear as to whether those benefits were only temporary to your friend because he isnt a "national". It may be that the Spanish themselves get benefits for however long they need to. Its perfectly fair enough for any country (hint - Britain - hint!)to not hand over benefits automatically to anyone entering the country - we shouldnt either...unless they can prove they are a "genuine" political refugee - and not an economic migrant.

Under various EU Directives you can't get away with doing that to nationals of other EU nations living and working in your country.

What tends to happen is because as a foreign EU national you don't know the system that well you can easily be fobbed off and they are stricter on how they give out benefits.

Plus other EU countries aren't as useless as the UK in checking claimants applications for any benefits.

A EU country is allowed to discriminate against non-EU nationals and the UK does quite openly.