The recession, benefits, the safety net, and the learning curve

SingleSue

£16 a week is very doable Max....I can feed myself and 3 children on bad weeks below £20, my normal is no more than £25 a week so £16 for one person should be no problem.

Yes it is all value stuff and reduced items but we can eat like kings too...last week picked up a whole gammon joint for the grand total of 19p (reduced from £5), salmon 19p (reduced from £4.78), 8 rolls 9p (reduced from £1.50), various fresh fish all 19p each but each reduced down from between £4 and £6.

Picked up a whole load of other stuff too (including lots of fruit reduced down), shopping bill came to £17, total should have been over £80 at full price and I have a bursting to full freezer and cupboards with some very nice luxury foods.

dopester

ceridwen wrote: »

Good points - all of them Pastures.

One other "tiny little" point - NOT! - is that we are all now at the start of a major seachange in Society - courtesy of Peak Oil/Climate Change. This is NOT a good point in History to give up any house/land asset one has - on the understanding with oneself that one will get an equivalent back again later. We dont know what LATER will be like - all we know is it will be VERY different to how Society currently is.

At this moment in History one safeguards ones property assets - certainly NOT STR (presumably "Sell to Rent").

It remains a superb opportunity imo. Only people with money savings will increasingly matter now (just the way it is). Not those who own property still valued at levels of the old paradigm, who have little by way of money savings.

With the economy unwinding, and the government will finally understand it can not rescue every debt else for it just makes matters worse and there would be no recovery. Ever more people will be forced to bring stuff to market. Property, antiques, valuables of all types... to sell to raise cash. Whenever they accept lower prices than in previous times, it lowers the market value for other people who own similar possessions, even if they don't plan to sell them.

Mobility/migration is also going to be increasingly important. Being able to relocate to employment opportunities in other areas, and there is a risk some areas may suffer because of much fewer employment opportunities.

I can't help but find it shameful that no one backs me up on this. That the mindset is still one of championing Max to stay in a home he paid off 10 years early, where the market value quadrupled since he bought the place....... despite the economy being set to lose jobs at the rate of 100,000 a month. Pastures - you are wrong. STR or STL is still a brilliant opportunity, above the love and entire being going in to a home.

Whilst knowing Max is a decent person, and probably well educated, qualified and hard-working, he may find it ever tougher to land his preferred type of job. That would be no reflection on him as an individual, but of the unwinding economy.

Were that to happen, how long can he keep his home, when he is already hard-pressed at the thought of surviving and paying the bills on JSA? Go-a-stealing Max? You'd rather go to prison instead of STR and convert your home into £125,000 financial capital. :rolleyes:

StevieJ

dopester wrote: »

Mobility/migration is also going to be increasingly important. Being able to relocate to employment opportunities in other areas, and there is a risk some areas may suffer because of much fewer employment opportunities.

On yer bike

PasturesNew

Max_Headroom wrote: »

Honestly PN, have you seen the price of Caviar these days? JSA doesn't go far I can assure you!

Just done the maths, and with Council Tax taken care of, looking at the costs of gas, electric, water, TV licence (can you disconnect the aerial and get away without this I wonder? Only £12/month though), and insurance paid on DD (because I wouldn't be able to just pay it when the bill came in like I have been doing) I'm left with £16-15/week.

So yes, assuming I walk to the shop I've got £16/week to feed myself on which must (I suppose) be doable.

Have to say I shall be looking to take any job I can get before I reach that stage though. What's minimum wage now?

I've never had caviar ...

Keep the telly, cheap entertainment.

£16/week for food is loads. Especially if you have a freezer (I don't). Should be able to get it down to £10/week on average without doing crazy stuff or growing anything. Just careful selection of what you buy/eat.

Minimum wage is a smidge under £6/hour, so you only need 2 days' work to replace the dole of £60.

Oldernotwiser

ceridwen wrote: »

Prove it!

As I've already stated - the Americans I quoted your comment at along these lines quickly told me how wrong that was.:rolleyes: They werent very happy with you for stating that inaccuracy about their country.

I'm not sure what inaccuracy you're referring to. Don't forget that many Americans have no idea what happens to people with no money behind them and no healthcare insurance. That's why they were so shocked by Michael Moore's film.

Oldernotwiser

Max_Headroom wrote: »

Honestly PN, have you seen the price of Caviar these days? JSA doesn't go far I can assure you!

Just done the maths, and with Council Tax taken care of, looking at the costs of gas, electric, water, TV licence (can you disconnect the aerial and get away without this I wonder? Only £12/month though), and insurance paid on DD (because I wouldn't be able to just pay it when the bill came in like I have been doing) I'm left with £16-15/week.

So yes, assuming I walk to the shop I've got £16/week to feed myself on which must (I suppose) be doable.

Have to say I shall be looking to take any job I can get before I reach that stage though. What's minimum wage now?

That's basically what several of us have been arguing all along; when you accept that you're unemployed and cut your outgoings you CAN live on JSA, but it has to be frugally.

PasturesNew

dopester wrote: »

I can't help but find it shameful that no one backs me up on this. That the mindset is still one of championing Max to stay in a home he paid off 10 years early, where the market value quadrupled since he bought the place....... despite the economy being set to lose jobs at the rate of 100,000 a month. Pastures - you are wrong. STR or STL is still a brilliant opportunity, above the love and entire being going in to a home.

When you're older, and out of work, you doubt your ability to get a job anything like you used to have. You consider that you might be relegated to low paid jobs for life - and you're aware that your mortgageability is low due to the fact you have less working life left in you. So you start to become more risk averse.

It might be, for example, that somebody in Max' position would never be able to own their own home ever again if they sold that one right now. With ageism rife (it's illegal but you can't stop it) and a recession, it might just be that anybody over 40, over 50, will just end up taking "any job" and doing that for life. My own dad spent 25 years in a specialist role (qualified/experienced electronics engineer/QA Manager), got laid off, on the dole for two years, then the only job he could get was pushing a broom round a station.

I myself am considering these facts: will I ever get a "proper job" or am I now "too old" (as seen at interview) when they could have the bird with the perky breasts and plunging neckline....

Sat there, home alone, nobody to tell you you're not crap, knockbacks quickly make you stop aiming high. You're more likely to "settle for what you can get", then be grateful you got it and just get into that rut.

I would state: this isn't actually about Max, this is about somebody in his situation. It's easy for people to start saying what he should/shouldn't do, but we're discussing somebody in his position, rather than the fine man himself.

dopester wrote: »

Whilst knowing Max is a decent person, and probably well educated, qualified and hard-working, he may find it ever tougher to land his preferred type of job. That would be no reflection on him as an individual, but of the unwinding economy.

Were that to happen, how long can he keep his home, when he is already hard-pressed at the thought of surviving and paying the bills on JSA? Go-a-stealing Max? You'd rather go to prison instead of STR and convert your home into £125,000 financial capital. :rolleyes:

As he would only have to cover £60/week dole, it'd be quite easy to eventually slip into that mindset. To stop looking for full-time work and instead to look for 2-3-4 days/week because they're better than the dole's £60.

At the start you are prevented from doing this because you are telling yourself you need a full-time job ... and maybe the phone will ring any minute, or this week's paper will have one, or the interview you had last week might prove fruitful. So that needs a mindset change before people in Max' position would actually seek part-time work (if you've always worked full-time then you know it'd be rude to lie to a potential employer who has a part-time job if you'll drop them the minute a full-time job comes up).

Max_Headroom_3

dopester wrote: »

I can't help but find it shameful that no one backs me up on this. That the mindset is still one of championing Max to stay in a home he paid off 10 years early, where the market value quadrupled since he bought the place....... despite the economy being set to lose jobs at the rate of 100,000 a month. Pastures - you are wrong. STR or STL is still a brilliant opportunity, above the love and entire being going in to a home.

If you tried actually reading the myriad of responses in this thread from many people explaining to you in very simple English precisely why you're completely wrong about this, you might find it a little less "shameful".

Whilst knowing Max is a decent person, and probably well educated, qualified and hard-working, he may find it ever tougher to land his preferred type of job. That would be no reflection on him as an individual, but of the unwinding economy.

Were that to happen, how long can he keep his home, when he is already hard-pressed at the thought of surviving and paying the bills on JSA? Go-a-stealing Max? You'd rather go to prison instead of STR and convert your home into £125,000 financial capital. :rolleyes:

The stealing reference was entirely tongue in cheek, I'm slightly surprised that needs spelling out.

I find it "shameful" ( :rolleyes: ) that you can make this point without understanding that it's precisely because I'm realistic enough to understand that I may have to take a lower paid job that it makes far more sense to stay in my bought and paid for home which gives me minimal monthly living expenses than sell up and risk it all as you would have me.

But as I say, it's been explained ad infinitum so there's no reason to think you'll suddenly clue up now really is there.

harryhound

PasturesNew wrote: »

It's about being a slave to an overbearing boss, never being free....

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/roy-orbison/working-for-the-man.html

Ah so it is the Roy Orbison song.

However I think I'll give the link a miss:eek:
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Max_Headroom_3

PasturesNew wrote: »

Minimum wage is a smidge under £6/hour, so you only need 2 days' work to replace the dole of £60.

I haven't ever had caviar either, I'm lead to believe that it's an "acquired taste" (tastes bloody awful in other words! )

£6/hour is £1,000/month on a 40 hour/week full time job. Bit less after tax obviously.

So basically, by staying in my home, a full time job will easily support me, even a minimum wage one.

And that, for me, is the ultimate safety net, the fact that my situation means I can do any full time job in the area, and even if it pays the absolute lowest possible I'll still be ok. (As long as I don't do anything insane like sell up, spend a fortune renting, and gamble on house values with the proceeds, but no one would be mad enough to suggest that was a good idea. Would they...? )

I really do feel for anyone in my situation with bigger overheads and no savings/decent redundancy though, bad enough as it is.