Power of attorney - necessary?

[Deleted User]

I've been looking into this with reference to my mum. Due to her increasingly frail health, her signature changes all the time and she now has bouts of confusion. I can see her having problems accessing her own money due to her signature problems. (She is unable to operate a cashpoint and has a passbook account instead). Recently she was also unable to string a sentence together coherently so the cashier could understand her.

Having tried to speak to her about power of attorney, (during her lucid moments, of which there are still plenty) she is happy about myself and/or my brothers between us having power of attorney - however, having read about it extensively, it appears to be fraught with possible reasons for it not to be granted. Although mum can understand stuff, she cannot retain it at all and her memory is very poor.

She owns no property. All she has are 3 bank accounts - one of which is an old cash ISA (but as a non tax payer she does not need an ISA) however as she is quite frugal she is building up some savings.

Would it be better for one of us to be added to her bank accounts making them joint accounts? This means we can pay her bills online etc... instead of her current method of trying to get the cash out and pay at the post office. It also means if she has another long spell in hospital again the bills are taken care of.

What are the tax implications, if any, of one of us being added to her accounts?

Is there any point at all in having an LPA when a situation such as this -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1173325/I-numb-I-Daughter-blasts-Gestapo-social-services-bundle-mother-86-family-home.html

can still arise?

If an LPA is still advisable I feel the best way would be to have it done by a solicitor as if we did the forms ourselves I'm not sure how we would go about getting the Certificate Providers (witnesses) - so -

can a LPA be drawn up in one solicitors appointment?

The DWP already have me on record as being permitted to discuss any queries with them - perhaps this could be feasible for everything else? i.e BT, other utilitys etc...

many thanks

Biggles

There shouldn't be any problem having her complete an LPA but, if she is visited by her GP, it would be advisable to get his/her views beforehand on your mother's mental state; that would be a useful defence if her ability was challenged afterwards.

Only a Power of Attorney will give you the right to insist that utility providers, DWP, banks etc will all discuss her affairs with you, it will be much more comprehensive than getting each body to agree (or not) separately, and when/if she does lose mental capacity it will be essential to have PoA in place.

[Deleted User]

Thanks.

In the case of the link I posted however, it would seem a LPA is an expensive waste of money if the relevant authorities are just going to ignore it? Reading other posts here it would seem many banks etc... ignore it anyway.

Also - can a LPA be sorted in one solicitor appointment?

Does a LPA give you access to the person's bank account to draw out money for bills? (If you are not on the account).

KD

I'm in Scotland and I believe there are a few differences in the application of POA here.

No matter, I sought POA with my mum some 2-3 years ago and have found this the best thing ever. Previously, I had a lot of pre-explaination to do with banks/ companies etc as my mum just didn't have the confidence/ or interest to talk to them anymore.

We sorted it out in one visit to the solicitor, who spent time with my mum individually without me, so she was able to assert that this was exactly what my mum wanted. It does cost- but I think it is worth it.

You really need to do it now, whilst your mum is still lucid, as it would be very difficult to do this later.

I appear on all my mum's bank accounts as 'attorney', and have complete access to all her funds/ investments. Many banks send a bank card for her and one to me, so if she wanted to she could still use it. I mainly use the internet for banking and paying bills , so it becomes very simple and eady to manage.

It has meant I can spend time with my mum, rather than get bogged down with extra administration.

In Scotland we have two POA parts - one for welfare and one for finance. I have POA over both, which means that no government organisation or company can make a decision/ take action regarding my mum without informing and consulting me.

hope this helps.

Biggles

It's not too expensive in itself, just £120 to register it (£120 each if you have both the Property and Affairs and the Personal Welfare LPAs) but if you choose to go through a solicitor (probably unnecessary), this could be much more expensive but probably not as expensive as the potential problems you might have without a PoA.

'The relevant authorities' can't 'just ignore it', though sometimes people have had difficulty getting the message through due to lack of knowledge on the part of customer service staff, though I had very little difficulty and any problems I did get were quickly sorted by explaining carefully or expediting to a higher level. Government bodies were never a problem.

I can't emphasise enough the point both I and KD made, that it needs to be done soon.

dzug1

The power of attorney mentioned in the Mail article isn't really relevant to the 'victim's' removal to care - it seems to relate to paying her fees, not decisions on her welfare, which are two separate issues. I'd not let a sensationalist article on an abnormal case lead to to assuming that it's always that way.

If your mum is compos mentis enough, at least some of the time, to understand what she is doing when granting you a Lasting Power of Attorney, then that is the route to go down. A trusted friend or neighbour can be the certificate provider - it doesn't have to be a professional (who will certainly charge)

If she is beyond understanding at all times then it's too late - you'll have to apply to be a Deputy which is a long winded and expensive process

Having her add you as a signatory to her accounts may work in the short term - but some banks won't allow it if there is the slightest hint of dementia. As long as they remain her accounts (ie you are an authorised signatory rather than a joint account holder) there are no tax implications for you.

Having an LPoA gives you access to the person's bank accounts - but you have to register it with the bank first. Depending on the bank that may be done on the spot, within a few days or can take ages.

The fee is £150 for each LPoA - unless it's gone down recently which seems unlikely

Biggles

dzug1 wrote: »

The fee is £150 for each LPoA - unless it's gone down recently which seems unlikely

It has, I had heard it would be going down to the same figure as the EPA had been, and £120 is the figure they are currently quoting on the website (http://www.publicguardian.gov.uk/about/OPG-fees.htm)

Savvy_Sue

'just' being added as a signatory on accounts would mean that you would have to declare them as your own, and half the interest on your tax return, etc, AFAIK.

Which could lead to problems.

rare_contributor

Had to register to post this as I feel it is important. I have struggled for several years to get control of finances and welfare for someone incapacitated through a car accident.

I started with a law firm specialising in this field (about 4 years ago) and after several hundred pounds fees and 2 years of effort they drew a blank as the court of protection needed the individual to be able to give their permission. As the person could not due to their condition, neither could they indicate any view at all, it became a circle - you need the power as the person is incapable of making decisions - the person needs to make the decision to let you have the power. Catch 22.

The law has been amended since to allegedly make it easier. I sent for the forms and booklets myself to fill in and went for 'deputy' status instead of power of attorney - due to our circumstances. It took forever and there are several copies to write but no legal fees. The fees charged by Court of Protection were refundable (by and large) once the power of attorney (in this case 'deputy' status) was granted.

All this is to show that if you can get POA before someone deteriorates to a level they cannot indicate choice it is very likely a lot easier to do. Also, if you are going that route consider checking with Citizens advice or your local MP to see what your rights are without having to go to the Court of Protection - there are some things that you have a 'right' to have a say in without taking legal proceedings.

good luck

dzug1

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

'just' being added as a signatory on accounts would mean that you would have to declare them as your own, and half the interest on your tax return, etc, AFAIK.

Which could lead to problems.

Sorry I disagree. Just being added as a signatory is no problem - the account remains in the sole name of the account holder. Converting it to a joint account in both names would be the problem.
So if you are the authorised signatory or attorney, you DON'T want your name on the account. You just want to be authorised to use it.

Savvy_Sue

I just wonder how many financial institutions would be capable of adding a name to an account without changing it to a joint a/c, and how easy it would be to demonstrate that it was NOT a joint a/c if necessary?