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Power of attorney - necessary?

2

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  • localhero
    localhero Posts: 834 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Combo Breaker
    I started with a law firm specialising in this field (about 4 years ago) and after several hundred pounds fees and 2 years of effort they drew a blank as the court of protection needed the individual to be able to give their permission. As the person could not due to their condition, neither could they indicate any view at all, it became a circle - you need the power as the person is incapable of making decisions - the person needs to make the decision to let you have the power. Catch 22. :confused:

    What on earth was this 'specialist' law firm doing for 4 years?

    In the first instance they should have ascertained if this person was capable of providing instructions to them - otherwise they should have explained to you the procedure for making an application to be a 'deputy' or the equivalent at the time.
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  • flossy_splodge
    flossy_splodge Posts: 2,544 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Savvy_Sue wrote: »
    I just wonder how many financial institutions would be capable of adding a name to an account without changing it to a joint a/c, and how easy it would be to demonstrate that it was NOT a joint a/c if necessary?

    I have to say that in my elderly (and very often confused) father's case it was extremely simple and easy to get his bank to add me as a 'authority to operate' signatory to his bank account.
    They understood, are extremely helpful and supportive and give me the distinct impression they are relieved i am in the loop.:eek:
  • Savvy_Sue wrote: »
    I just wonder how many financial institutions would be capable of adding a name to an account without changing it to a joint a/c, and how easy it would be to demonstrate that it was NOT a joint a/c if necessary?

    Mum has 3 accounts but all with the same bank. I rang the bank, got put thru to the local branch and they confirmed I could be added as a signatory - but that it would make it a joint account.

    The only problem account is her passbook account - as her signature varies so much and she can now barely sign her name. The other 2 have ATM cards so we could get money out for paying bills if she went into hospital again.

    Having tried to talk to her about LPA, I'm now certain it is too late as she simply cannot retain the information. Her bouts of confusion are now such that some days she is ok and others she cannot string a sentence together coherently - which also means she may have problems in the bank if she is on her own.
  • sloughflint
    sloughflint Posts: 2,345 Forumite
    edited 19 May 2009 at 3:11PM
    Mum has 3 accounts but all with the same bank. I rang the bank, got put thru to the local branch and they confirmed I could be added as a signatory - but that it would make it a joint account.

    Utter rubbish!
    I was a signatory for a very long time until I accidentally became aware that for internet banking POA was a necessity.
    Under no circumstances was the account joint.

    If you don't get any joy, change bank to one that knows what it's doing.
  • dzug1
    dzug1 Posts: 13,535 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Savvy_Sue wrote: »
    I just wonder how many financial institutions would be capable of adding a name to an account without changing it to a joint a/c, and how easy it would be to demonstrate that it was NOT a joint a/c if necessary?


    The point is they are not adding a name to the account. They are authorising a futher person to sign.

    Most banks should be capable - I know Abbey aren't though. But they are not capable of much.
  • Utter rubbish!
    I was a signatory for a very long time until I accidentally became aware that for internet banking POA was a necessity.
    Under no circumstances was the account joint.

    If you don't get any joy, change bank to one that knows what it's doing.

    We can't change to another bank as Abbey are the only ones who do an instant access passbook account. This is the account mum uses the most as she cannot keep track of her other accounts just by trying to use an ATM and getting fiddly little receipts.

    Apart from being from a generation who feel more comfortable with a passbook, she needs to see a passbook with the list of transactions etc... to be able to understand it, plus her MS means she cannot easily learn what the rest of us take for granted, i.e the use of ATMs, online banking.

    Before finding the Abbey account (about 18 months ago) - I did extensive research on all the high street main banks and building societies to see who did a simple instant access passbook account - and Abbey were the only ones where you could walk in off the street and open it up with ID and a £1. Abbey told us the other day that these will be phased out to new customers soon - this leaving a whole generation of customers like my mum in the lurch.

    (The only reason she ended up at Abbey was the closure of Woolwich and her beloved passbook account there which was then transferred to a cheque account with Barclays - another bank who do not do passbook accounts).
  • Biggles
    Biggles Posts: 8,209 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Having tried to talk to her about LPA, I'm now certain it is too late as she simply cannot retain the information. Her bouts of confusion are now such that some days she is ok and others she cannot string a sentence together coherently - which also means she may have problems in the bank if she is on her own.
    It doesn't matter that some days she is confused and can't retain information if, on other days, she is OK, as you say.

    You need to get her to agree (on a 'Good' day), and make sure you have all the forms downloaded and completed and see her to get them signed - again, on a 'Good' day - with at least one other person present, preferably someone with medical knowledge, eg GP, nurse, care staff etc, in order that they could, if necessary, confirm that she knew what she was doing.
  • FairyElephant_2
    FairyElephant_2 Posts: 1,117 Forumite
    My father started with similar probs to your mum (he has alzheimers). My mum & I realised that we would need POA in the future, so obtained it a year or so ago before he got too bad that he couldn't understand - it is a godsend, honestly! Every organisation we've dealt with is so much happier to talk with us when they know we have this 'magic' piece of paper! I really would recommend that you try to catch your mum 'on a good day' (SO know what you mean BTW!) and get her to agree to it.
    You can download the relevant forms from the internet, get them witnessed and then register them - it is a relatively easy process. When we did it it was £120, but we knew it was due to go up to £150 and just got ours done in time.

    I also completely agree that banks & other such organisations just don't understand the probs the elderly can have - my father is also incapable of using a cashpoint (even using the phone is a challenge for him nowadays!) and can no longer even write cheques as he doesn't know what the year is, let alone the date, and can't remember which boxes he needs to fill in! We'd just got him able to withdraw his pension from our local post office last year, using his card (he had to write the number down on a piece of paper but the staff all knew him and helped him sort it out every week!) when they closed the PO and now he has to get it from the main one in the area - just not safe for him to carry the number that far and use it in that environment, so someone else has to go get it for him now - thanks again to the POA!

    Hope you manage to get something sorted, and good luck.

    FE
    The best advice you can give your children: "Take responsibility for your own actions...and always Read the Small Print!"
    ..."Mind yer a*se on the step!"
    TTC with FI - RIP my 2 MC Angels - 3rd full ICSI starts May/June 2009 - BFP!!! Please let it be 'third time lucky'..... EDD 7th March 2010.
  • I'll have another look at possible going down the route of LPA. Another question however.... (sorry for all the queries) - the best person to sign as a witness would be her GP - so presumably this would entail taking her in for an appointment - do GPs give appointments for this type of thing? And do they charge for it? I don't really have anyone else I could ask to be a witness.
  • dzug1
    dzug1 Posts: 13,535 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Biggles wrote: »
    It doesn't matter that some days she is confused and can't retain information if, on other days, she is OK, as you say.

    You need to get her to agree (on a 'Good' day), and make sure you have all the forms downloaded and completed and see her to get them signed - again, on a 'Good' day - with at least one other person present, preferably someone with medical knowledge, eg GP, nurse, care staff etc, in order that they could, if necessary, confirm that she knew what she was doing.


    The form strongly recommends (can't recall if it actually requires) that the attorney is NOT present when the LPoA is signed
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