A Tradesmans rant

Oldernotwiser

isplumm wrote: »

But want I would say is that if you are employed you have a guaranteed income every month ..... whereas self employed don't have that .... also you get holiday pay.

Mark

That's of course true, although the chances of a regular self employed income must be greatly enhanced by charging competitive rates..

marleyboy

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

That's of course true, although the chances of a regular self employed income must be greatly enhanced by charging competitive rates..

So true - Sometimes you have to give a penny to make a pound

DebtHater

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

But how much of those 24 hours have you actully been working and how much time have you spent sitting waiting for fares? (Genuine question.)

I count being outside from my house as "working", regardless of if I have a passenger on board or not. Sitting around waiting for fares is different than sitting around your office waiting for the phone to ring for quotes etc. When you are sitting around for fares, you are in your car, you cant really go anywhere and you are ready to go there and then.

I count idle points during the day all as part of the working day. So during those 3 days, 24 hours were worked but 3 of those hours might have been waiting for the next fare, however when I look at my hourly wage for the week, those 3 hours of waiting time is included in the sums.

On a good note, the end of this week was much better (what with the weekend), so ended up taking £600 after expenses for the week. But that included a considerate amount of sitting around on the ranks - espiecally on Saturday nights when there are more cabs out than members of the public :rotfl:

marleyboy

DebtHater wrote: »

Sitting around waiting for fares is different than sitting around your office waiting for the phone to ring for quotes etc. When you are sitting around for fares, you are in your car, you cant really go anywhere and you are ready to go there and then.

But surely, the same applies in the Office, if the phone isn't ringing at the office, you cant just pop out and go shopping.

whitegoods_engineer

Bishop_Basher wrote: »

Interesting thread, as a 'time served' self employed joiner/carpenter (over 22 years) I'll obviously side with the OP.

I occasionally do sub-contract work for £16 to £20 an hour, ie; working for some one else, so I always try to make at least that for myself. (Not always possible mind you)

The worst case scenario is making £450 a week for an agency, so why the hell would any one bother with all the hassle of being self employed for any less than that?

As with all 'normal' expenses there is also Liability insurance.
I own hand and power tools worth in excess of £6000, I'll spend approximately £1500 a year on consumables like router bits, blades, saws, drill bits and tool repairs alone.

I spend over £2000 a year on advertising.
What the 'civilians' forget is we don't get any holiday pay either, thats 5 weeks you get automatically which is what £2000+ ish?

These are all necessary expenses at least £6000 outside of the 'normal' expenses like fuel and NIC etc, that have to be paid for and incorporated into my prices.

You're paying for years of experience and the knowledge gained, combined with piece of mind that I'm insured and won't disappear once you've handed over your money.

Sure builders are definately NOT rocket scientists, but its hard physical work, done in all weathers and contrary to popular belief a modicum amount of brain power is required!

If customers don't want to pay my price/quote I don't get the job, simple as that, there is one saying that rings true in 99% of cases... pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

Well said, I heartily agree. People think 100 percent of the money charged is profit! They forget about phone costs, diesel, depreciation, accountants fees, ongoing training, mandatory subscription to statutory bodies such as the Gas safe register in my case, van repairs etc, etc! Also, the sheer KNOWLEDGE and SKILLS we possess which means they have to call US in because they are incapable of undertaking this 'easy' work themselves!!

:mad:

I feel better now!

Customers need to see the whole picture not just the bottom-line charges!

marleyboy

whitegoods_engineer wrote: »

Well said, I heartily agree. People think 100 percent of the money charged is profit! They forget about phone costs, diesel, depreciation, accountants fees, ongoing training, mandatory subscription to statutory bodies such as the Gas safe register in my case, van repairs etc, etc! Also, the sheer KNOWLEDGE and SKILLS we possess which means they have to call US in because they are incapable of undertaking this 'easy' work themselves!!

:mad:

I feel better now!

Customers need to see the whole picture not just the bottom-line charges!

But I am one of those customers who really doesnt care what profit is involved, I couldnt give a hoot how much phone calls, van repairs or fuel a tradesman uses, all I care about is how much it is going to cost me the customer. I know I am not alone in that, its called business.

whitegoods_engineer

marleyboy wrote: »

But I am one of those customers who really doesnt care what profit is involved, I couldnt give a hoot how much phone calls, van repairs or fuel a tradesman uses, all I care about is how much it is going to cost me the customer. I know I am not alone in that, its called business.

Maybe you don't care. If ignorance is bliss then well done! What you SHOULD appreciate is that in choosing the cheapest tradesman, you make that choice based upon solely one factor - Price.

I attend daily to customers who have gone out and bought washing machines for £150 (or even less) and then complain that it has broken down after 12 months! They tell me that their 'old' washing machine lasted for 12 years and that the new one is rubbish!

They don't seem to make the logical link between something which just about does a basic job for £150 or something which is engineered, researched and built to a level of quality and durability and sold for a realistic price.

Sure you can always find somebody prepared to either rob themselves or do a rubbish job by seeking out the cheapest but then thats the mentality of those who buy Chinese washing machines and expect a Rolls Royce kind of service and reliability.

You probably have the mind of a person who believes that tradesman A, solely because he charges more than tradesman B must be ripping you off because one is 'cheaper' than the other.

Just because you don't give a hoot about any factors which may affect the 'price' shows a lack of reasoning and an inability to assess the pros and cons of one tradesman versus another.

You seem to have a formula in your head which states CHEAPEST=BEST, FULL STOP!

Well, if thats your blinkered view, good luck!

zax47

whitegoods_engineer wrote: »

You probably have the mind of a person who believes that tradesman A, solely because he charges more than tradesman B must be ripping you off because one is 'cheaper' than the other.

Just because you don't give a hoot about any factors which may affect the 'price' shows a lack of reasoning and an inability to assess the pros and cons of one tradesman versus another.

You seem to have a formula in your head which states CHEAPEST=BEST, FULL STOP!

Well, if thats your blinkered view, good luck!

Here, here! Good points and well put mate. I tried to make this point previously (post #70 page 4). I even quoted John Ruskin's thoughts on price vs value (and got called an "ill-educated oath{sic}") and these ignoramus's still didn't understand the difference.

spuds_2

I guess the trouble is that lots of people feel they have paid a fair price and still got a bad job. I think the other problem is that people perceive tradesmen as charging more when their skills are in short supply - but complaining when increased competition or a recession forces down prices.

DebtHater

marleyboy wrote: »

But surely, the same applies in the Office, if the phone isn't ringing at the office, you cant just pop out and go shopping.

But we can go out and go shopping, but why would I want to when I could go out and sit on a taxi rank and ply for hire? The benefit of being self-employed is being able to do what we want, when we want. Its called "flexi-time".

Ive got loads of spare time on my days off to go shopping, when I am working I am working, regardless of where I am sitting at the time.