A Tradesmans rant

jennytiger

I think some people are missing the main point... which is:

Self employed tradesmen have a wide range of 'extra' costs which they incur every day which has to be included in there hourly / daily rate.

So when, as a customer you get a quote for anything please remember to take into account these 'extras'

andyhop

Dan_Thomas wrote: »

Ok, let me help you out on this;

Fuel: I pay fuel to and from work. I can't claim this back unless I am doing extra trips.

Vehicle repairs/upkeep: Last time I tried giving my MOT bill, road Tax and reciepts for new tyres to my boss he told me exactly where to go.

Insurance: We've covered this. £100/year.

Tools: Granted I don't buy tools. Let's say that you spend £2,000/year on tools and their upkeep.

Admin: What? Some paper & pens? £100.

Phone: Okay I get this paid for, but if you get a decent contract you can pay £100/month and get around 2,000 minutes. Who's going to use all that?

Am I missing anything? You're still left with 40k a year. Even i you want to completely blow these costs out of proportion we have £35k/year. Yes this is before tax figures etc, same applies to most people.

Stop trying to dress up the costs, because in reality, they're not that much greater than a "normal" person's costs.

Fuel and travel costs- The van is used for work only,Most tradesman will have to have a 2nd vehicle as driving a van as a main vehicle is not practical.My works van cost £14000

Vehicle upkeep- we cant claim for any of this if we claim the current 40p a mile for 10000 miles 25p for anything after,We cant claim fuel either

Insurance- Business,motor,liabilty and warranty £100 LOL without getting my paperwork out i would say £2500 per year

Tools- £2000 per year....As a multitrade i spent half your budget on a rail mounted tile cutter.Last year alone i estimate to have spent in excess of £9000

Admin- Pens and paper, What about time,invoicing,accounts and books,Receipts.20mins per evening for me and 2 hrs on a sunday.Mileage records all have to kept daily aswell

Phone- We all have a mobile nowadays

I once did a HMRC Self employment course and did some calculations based on the above.If i was to charge £40 per her, my actual take home wage would be approx £22 per hour

We also have to pay for retraining,Regulations change from time to time and membership of certain official bodies costs us aswell,Being employed by others you would get this paid for and be paid to do it

After throwing my savings into getting started,two years later i am now beginning to make a profit,If your employed by others do you have to speculate to accumulate?

Being self employed is certainly not a bed of roses,If we could make 40k as you have suggested why aint you doing it

jennytiger

andyhop wrote: »

Fuel and travel costs- The van is used for work only,Most tradesman will have to have a 2nd vehicle as driving a van as a main vehicle is not practical.My works van cost £14000

Vehicle upkeep- we cant claim for any of this if we claim the current 40p a mile for 10000 miles 25p for anything after,We cant claim fuel either

Insurance- Business,motor,liabilty and warranty £100 LOL Within getting my paperwork out i would say £2500 per year

Tools- £2000 per year....As a multitrade i spent half your budget on a rail mounted tile cutter.Last year alone i estimate to have spent in excess of £9000

Admin- Pens and paper, What about time,invoicing,accounts and books,Receipts.20mins per evening for me and 2 hrs on a sunday.Mileage records all have to kept daily aswell

Phone- We all have a mobile nowadays

I once did a HMRC Self employment course and did some calculations based on the above.If i was to charge £40 per her, my actual take home wage would be approx £22 per hour

We also have to pay for retraining,Regulations change from time to time and membership of certain official bodies costs us aswell,Being employed by others you would get this paid for and be paid to do it

After throwing my savings into getting started,two years later i am now beginning to make a profit,If your employed by others do you have to speculate to accumulate?

Being self employed is certainly not a bed of roses,If we could make 40k as you have suggested why aint you doing it

At last somebody who has tried to explain things properley, my best friend cant understand why im always skint when i charge 180 pound a day or 20 -30 pound per hour if you like. he earns 28k a year in IT 9-5 mon-fri. last 12months 35k i dont think so try 12k which is 8k less then working for someone else in my industry. tuff luck to me i guess, well so be it were in a recession i can cope with that for two years tops then i go bankrupt and have to go work for someone else again, unless work picks up. its at a critical point now were i cant afford marketing and advertising i am only just surviving from existing customers and word of mouth. I am trying to get involved with commercial and industry work as the pay is 5times better then the domestic trade. domestically nobody wants to pay for a good job anymore, in fact domestically nobody wants any jobs doing at all. there a lot of people on this site who have a comfortable job who have no experiance working for themselves its bizzarre how they can have a valid opinion, it certinly makes me laugh reading a few of the comments.

Oldernotwiser

Perhaps someone should write a book called "The Self Employed are from Mars, Employees are from Venus". It could sell really well!

kiddy_guy

Again, if it's so bad being a tradesman and there is no money in it, why do it?

If you feel it's not profitable then do something else. If it is then stop complaining - lots of people would just be happy to have a job.

Li0nhead

kiddy_guy wrote: »

Again, if it's so bad being a tradesman and there is no money in it, why do it?

If you feel it's not profitable then do something else. If it is then stop complaining - lots of people would just be happy to have a job.

Fair point. What everyone is trying to say (i think):

To the Customers: The price you are paying is not anywhere near the amout the tradesman will take home at the end of the job due to overheads/costs.

To the trades: If we can get as good a job done for less then we will pay the lesser price. We don't care about your overheads. We care about cost and quality.

Everyone happy?

eyeinthesky

I understand that tradesmen have overheads etc, and have to have a little extra put by for when work is scarce, but high rates like £180 per day means I cannot afford to employ a tradesman to do work in my home. This means I have had to do most things myself over the last 20 years or so, and even if I say so myself, I have done a competent job. I have completely rewired my current home (when it was still legal to do so!), and have removed an old chimney and made the roof good, and recently replaced the garden fencing and refitted the bathroom from scratch. So....thanks guys for the high prices, I might never have learned all this stuff otherwise.

Debt_Free_Chick

Dan_Thomas wrote: »

Ok, let me help you out on this;

Fuel: I pay fuel to and from work. I can't claim this back unless I am doing extra trips.

Vehicle repairs/upkeep: Last time I tried giving my MOT bill, road Tax and reciepts for new tyres to my boss he told me exactly where to go.

Insurance: We've covered this. £100/year.

Tools: Granted I don't buy tools. Let's say that you spend £2,000/year on tools and their upkeep.

Admin: What? Some paper & pens? £100.

Phone: Okay I get this paid for, but if you get a decent contract you can pay £100/month and get around 2,000 minutes. Who's going to use all that?

Am I missing anything? You're still left with 40k a year. Even if you want to completely blow these costs out of proportion we have £35k/year. Yes this is before tax figures etc, same applies to most people.

Stop trying to dress up the costs, because in reality, they're not that much greater than a "normal" person's costs.

I agree entirely - your employer will not pay you for your personal costs. But your employer will reimburse you for the expenses you incur whilst doing their business..... and they will pass those costs on to customers.

That's exactly what the self employed do

Debt_Free_Chick

jennytiger wrote: »

I think some people are missing the main point... which is:

Self employed tradesmen have a wide range of 'extra' costs which they incur every day which has to be included in there hourly / daily rate.

So when, as a customer you get a quote for anything please remember to take into account these 'extras'

I'd go further than that, but you're on the track.

All businesses have costs (overheads) and the price you pay as a customer - whether you're buying the services of a self employed tradesman or a pair of knickers in M&S - includes those overheads.

MrsE_2

diable wrote: »

don't complain about being undercut on prices then Mr £180 Chippy, grow up and move to the back of the queue, the dole queue ;o))

MY DH is a cab driver, money earned is not profit.

He needs to make £180 to have a semi decent day.