A Tradesmans rant

sodamnfunky

Li0nhead wrote: »

Are you on drugs?

Let me tell you how the construction industry works:

1: theres the newbuild groups who employ self employed tradesmen. These nationally known groups have shut up shop (look how many of these nationally known groups are buliding near to you compaired to 3 years ago?). Thats 100s of thousands of self empolyed tradespeople either out of work or moving into other sectors of the trades.

2: The local builders/small builders/residential work.

Over the past years people were getting credit from banks backed by their property to pay for work on their property. This kept lots of one man bands/small employers in business.

today: The credit provided by the property had dried up, plus the self employed people laid off by the nationwide chains are moving into this sector. Less work and more people going for this little work means even more tradesmen on the dole....

3: The taxpayer funded tradesman. Council employed etc. In good times poor money and equally poor tradesman or people wanting a garenteed wadge. Today every vacancy massively oversubscribed as it beats the dole and everyone in the above catergorys applying for these jobs.

Ok in the trades its either feast or fammime.
We cannot moan now because the last few years have been very good for us.

But dont try to tell us that we dont know a recession is going on cause thats !!!!!!!!.
Like i say look at the national housebuilders. They employed 100s on each site, they have simply shut up shop an where do these workers go? You dont hear of the job losses because they were self employed.

We have had it good in recent years but we have been hit harder than most sectors.

I have been in the building trade since I left school, and have worked through 2 recessions, this is my 3rd, and as in previous years, the trade is complaining there is no work/money and they have nothing. So let me tell YOU who's fault it is. It is the tradesmen for being so greedy, and not being realistic.
The national housebuilders employ hundreds, but a hell of a lot of them are semi-skilled people who jumped on the bandwagon, I am glad there is a recession as it weeds out the [EMAIL="!!!!"]!!!![/EMAIL].

Your last line is true, we have had it REALLY good in recent years, and as these things ALWAYS go in cycles, it was obvious it would happen. However as most people in the industry lack a brain or any common sense, it's of no surprise they are complaining.

zax47

advent1122 wrote: »

Typical ill educated oath. You don't like to hear the truth.
Your business is about to go down the pan, you MUST cut prices to stay competitive because people who's surname begins with a Z are pinching all your work.
It is not my fault that.
A) Your profession is going to the dogs.
I can negotiate because (as I said before), for the next few years, you need me more than I need you.

Ah-ha, another chip-on-his-shoulder, "better-than-the-lowly-tradesman" customer! I think you meant "oaf" by the way :rolleyes:. How many "ill-educated" people do you have quoting Ruskin at you then? Maybe you could loook him up and read some of his thoughts - YOU might learn something!

Actually, I have a 2:1 in Electronics from Leicester University and was Sales Director for a multi-national electronics Company for several years. I originally trained as an electrician nearly 30 years ago before going into sales, mainly in the defence arena. I took early retirement 2 years ago and set up a small electrical business which is doing great, thanks for asking!. But enough about me......

About your assumptions;

A) No it isn't, MY business is great thanks. I have about 85% of my business from recommendation, mainly because I DO do a good job, at a FAIR price and I AM pleasant, punctual and tidy.

As I said before, I DON'T need you at all. I don't need PITA customers when I can have nice, pleasant ones who appreciate a good job, done well, and are prepared to pay me for doing it. (unlike a cheapskate WOFT customer who gets what he deserves - a !!!!!! job, but at least it was cheap eh!)

advent1122

zax47 wrote: »

About your assumptions;

A) No it isn't, MY business is great thanks. I have about 85% of my business from recommendation, mainly because I DO do a good job, at a FAIR price and I AM pleasant, punctual and tidy.

That is why you are pi$$ing about on the computer at 9.30 in the morning.
What time did you tell the customer? 8am perhaps.

nitrox

Volcano wrote: »

I think you're getting 'builder' confused with 'architect', 'structural engineer', 'building inspectorate' etc.

Oh yer them to, now i bet their wages are alot higher than £180 a-day.
Anyway I've given this topic a lot of thought, and i sympathize with the joe public who gets a shock when told its £180 a-day, i think its far better to give an over all fair price, and keeping the saying of £180 a-day to a contractor when working on a building site, if that makes sense?
you all have a good day now,
nitrox

advent1122

thechippy wrote: »

No need, I have plenty of work thanks. There are in fact people out there who understand that they get what they pay for....:p

You keep harping on about "getting what you pay for".
I could pay someone £250 a day and still get a sh1te job.
Which is why I want it as cheap as possible from Mr Zwarzxiaz, then if it is a botch job, I will be happy that I have helped my East European cousin buy some more potatos for his grand monther in Gdansk, rather than pay Mr Flash to have an extra bit of vinyl on his van.

zax47

advent1122 wrote: »

That is why you are pi$$ing about on the computer at 9.30 in the morning.
What time did you tell the customer? 8am perhaps.

Guess what - I'm on holiday!! Unpaid, of course. Off for a massage now, then a couple more cocktails I think.

dacouch

Public Liability for a chippy is more like between £70 and £120 a year...

Debt_Free_Chick

Dan_Thomas wrote: »

The thing is this; it IS £900/week, or just over 40 grand a year.

Those things that you list as costs, I have to pay all of those in my line of work and I'm not even self-employed. You seem to not realise that for you, those are tax deductable.

Really? Are you saying that you have to reimburse your employer for their tax and NI? For their fuel, vehicle repairs/upkeep, insurance, tools, equipment, admin & phone?

We're not talking about a Self-employed tradesman's personal costs here - just those expenses which are necessary to do the job. In that respect, there is no advantage to being self employed at all. In fact, there's a cost - those expenses have to be paid from the £180 a day that the tradesman charges. Yes - they may be tax deductible, but even if the tradesman pays higher rate tax, they still fork out 60% of the business costs.

If you're employed, you pay none of the business costs.

This is not aimed at you personally, but there really does seem to be a fundamental lack of understanding of some business basics in this thread. If you're self-employed, you pay all of the costs of running the business and it's vital that your hourly/daily rate covers these costs AND gives you enough to pay yourself "a salary".

£40k a year turnover is diddly squat! He doesn't "earn" £40k a year - his turnover is £40k a year. I'd be surprised if someone self-employed with that turnover earned much more than the national average wage, after deduction of legitimate business expenses - although it does depend on their trade.

Oldernotwiser

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

but even if the tradesman pays higher rate tax, .

Your argument was going so well until you shot yourself in the foot!

Debt_Free_Chick

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Your argument was going so well until you shot yourself in the foot!

Higher rate tax is almost certainly not payable on t/o of "only" £40k a year

I repeat - turnover - NOT gross pay. There is a difference which many here seem to be missing out on