red traffic lights and emergency vehicle

Gordon861

In theory you have the right to cross a red light if it is an emergency and it is safe to do so. An emergency vehicle blocked in by you with siren and blue lights flashing can be considered just cause to go through a red light, but you may need to argue the case later if there is a problem.

Taking down the number the emergency vehicle and reporting it to your local police station later would probably help your case if you did end up in court.

I have gone through red lights a number of times to allow an emergency vehicle through and not had a problem yet. I also try to make eye contact with the passenger as they go past to get some sort of acknowledgement from them, they have a much better chance of remembering you then.

goldspanners

Gordon861 wrote: »

In theory you have the right to cross a red light if it is an emergency and it is safe to do so. An emergency vehicle blocked in by you with siren and blue lights flashing can be considered just cause to go through a red light, but you may need to argue the case later if there is a problem.

Taking down the number the emergency vehicle and reporting it to your local police station later would probably help your case if you did end up in court.

I have gone through red lights a number of times to allow an emergency vehicle through and not had a problem yet. I also try to make eye contact with the passenger as they go past to get some sort of acknowledgement from them, they have a much better chance of remembering you then.

seriously, have you not seen that people are being penalised for this by cameras,and courts not being the least bit interested in why you jumped the light?

the lights you have jumped have probably not had a traffic signal camera at them, luckily for you. i wonder if your response and willingness to pass red lights would be different if you had to go to court to contest said incident and not win.meaning you leave with an even heavier fine and possibly more than 3 points?

Lum

goldspanners wrote: »

the lights you have jumped have probably not had a traffic signal camera at them, luckily for you. i wonder if your response and willingness to pass red lights would be different if you had to go to court to contest said incident and not win.meaning you leave with an even heavier fine and possibly more than 3 points?

Generally what happens is that people follow the common sense approach that Gordon posted, then when they eventually get a ticket in the post and have to deal with the numpties as the ticket office followed by some 90 year old magistrate who treats you like a child murderer they develop a f**k you attitude to the police, refusing to do any more than the bare minimum required in order to help them out and start getting really pedantic about the law at the cost of safety.

Personally if I become aware of an emergency vehicle approaching with the sirens going I will check the junction for cameras if I'm in a situation where crossing the stop line is the best option and cross if safe to do so (ie. if there isn't a camera). I do include the police in this because I'm well aware that any copper on an emergency call isn't going to be a copper that works in "safety" cameras and it's probably important. It's unfair to tar the rest of the police with the same brush though I can fully understand people who do.

Gordon861

goldspanners wrote: »

seriously, have you not seen that people are being penalised for this by cameras,and courts not being the least bit interested in why you jumped the light?

the lights you have jumped have probably not had a traffic signal camera at them, luckily for you. i wonder if your response and willingness to pass red lights would be different if you had to go to court to contest said incident and not win.meaning you leave with an even heavier fine and possibly more than 3 points?

Actually what I wrote is correct, a lot of the law in the UK can be broken if you have a reasonable excuse as to why you did it. This is why when you go to court for an offence you are asked why you did what you did.

Context is very important in nearly all cases. The court may not believe your excuse for braking the law and it'll be up to you to prove that you had a good excuse because they have the evidence that you boke the law.

This is why I suggested reporting the incident to the local police station and trying to get an acknowledgement from the vehicle as they go past. You really need to start building the case before you get the summons, otherwise it is just an excuse after the fact, and they won't remember you.

Gordon861

From the ACPOs own website : https://www.askthe.police.uk/Content/Q699.htm

Q: What should I do if I am at a red traffic light and there is an emergency vehicle behind me trying to get through?
A: The police cannot condone but understand that people may have to make way for emergency vehicles when they are responding to an emergency and they may have to commit an offence in order to do so e.g. move slightly forward through a red light to allow the vehicle to pass.
However this must only be done where it is safe for all concerned and should only be done for emergency vehicles that have their warning signals on.
For instances where this occurrence is captured by a red light camera the photographic evidence will show this is what happened because they will be either seen on the photographs or will activate the camera themselves and there will usually be no further action taken in respect of the offence. However, each force may have a different policy on this matter
To satisfy the police, the photographic evidence must show an emergency vehicle otherwise they would be unable to accept this reason as a defence for committing the offence and the matter would be dealt with through the Magistrates court. The police may accept other independent evidence but you may need to seek legal advice on this matter.
Each case is dealt with on its own merit and the circumstances will be considered before the appropriate action will be taken.

Lum

Gordon861 wrote: »

For instances where this occurrence is captured by a red light camera the photographic evidence will show this is what happened because they will be either seen on the photographs or will activate the camera themselves

Unless you're unlucky and the timing is such that you go through on red+amber and the ambulance goes through on green

and there will usually be no further action taken in respect of the offence.

"usually"

However, each force may have a different policy on this matter
To satisfy the police, the photographic evidence must show an emergency vehicle otherwise they would be unable to accept this reason as a defence for committing the offence and the matter would be dealt with through the Magistrates court. The police may accept other independent evidence but you may need to seek legal advice on this matter.
Each case is dealt with on its own merit and the circumstances will be considered before the appropriate action will be taken.

Translation: Get a lawyer and we'll see you in court.

Don't forget that ACPO are a private company and don't make the rules anyway.

surreysaver

Gordon861 wrote: »

Actually what I wrote is correct, a lot of the law in the UK can be broken if you have a reasonable excuse as to why you did it.

But it is not the motorist driving through the red light who will be deciding if it was a reasonable excuse.

The_Pedant

I know someone who was at traffic lights (with a busy box junction too) in London, when police were coming up behind him as the lights were changing to stop. The police behind him gestured for him to go but he stayed put. When they changed back to green, they pulled him over on the other side of the lights.

As he explained to the officer, he could not be sure of the instruction they were giving him (from the vague hand signals). However, if he was wrong and crossed a red light, blocking a box junction, it could of cost him 3 points, or worse (if something came across the lights).

They conceded the point and let him on his way. Yes they may sometimes be a little forceful, but like anyone human, they don't always consider all sides of the situation.

surreysaver

In the above situation, you will need to take the Officer's shoulder number and report them for trying to force you into committing an offence. As far as I'm aware, a police officer can only give hand signals if (s)he is stood in the road using gestures that are actually published in the Highway Code.

tomstickland

You can normally* see or hear an ambulance coming well before it's close. I was at red lights and had time to reverse out of the way recently.

*I did once pull over and the ambulance had to tailgate the car that had been in front of me for about 30s before they noticed the flashing lights. Makes me wonder how alert some people are.