red traffic lights and emergency vehicle

Paparika

shandypants5 wrote: »

I hope I am never trapped behind you self centerd lot when I am moments from death traveling in an Ambulance.


Assess the situation!!

If it is SAFE for you to make room for the Ambulance, then MOVE!!!!

Think about your "livelihood" or your "licence points" later.

YOU MAY BE SAVING A LIFE!!



Oh and BTW give blood too. !!!!!!!s

then can i come find you and demand you pay my fines

Lum

If there is a camera at that red light and your wheels so much as touch that stop line it will set the camera off and you'll get 3 points £60 and an increased insurance premium for the next 5 years (don't forget the ban with possible loss of job if you're already on 9 points). If you take it to court that could go up to 6 points, £1000 fine, court costs and £15 "victims of crime" surcharge. Moving out of the way for an ambulance is not a valid defence for a red light offence even if the next frame on the film shows the ambulance going through the red light.

This is just one more way that "safety" cameras are costing lives. If you have a problem with it then groups such as the ABD and SafeSpeed could use your support.

The latter also has a very good forum where a few well respected serving police officers post, and they have confirmed that if you're stopped at a red light you shouldn't go through just to let them past. They did also imply that if they were on an emergency call they're not going stop and give you a ticket for the offence, but the camera partnerships are a completely different story.

Back before the cameras came in it would, of course, be common practice to let an emergency vehicle through by going through a red light if necessary and safe but there hasn't been much common sense applied to law enforcement for a long long time.

anewman

omelette451 wrote: »

As I said, we hear only about the unfortunate ones. What we don't know from that is how many people did exactly the same thing and weren't taken to court for it.

Depends on whether there are any police in the locality, or are any red light cameras. The way our legal system works anyway, the "precedent" has been set. One person was not allowed to get away with it, so everyone else won't be.

rev_henry

Surely if it was OK to go through a red light for emergency services the courts wouldn't feel the need to penalise people for it? This isn't even a grey area, its black and white as the precedent has been set; you CANNOT cross the stop line on a red light. The end. (Sorry if I've repeated what someone's already said).

Surely what is called for here is a modified 'tyres and tarmac rule' in the form of 'stop line and tarmac': leave enough space so you can see the stop line (instead of the car in front's tyres) and a bit of tarmac so you have enough space to pull to one side to let an ambulance etc through without crossing the line. That way everyone's happy (except maybe the !!!!!! right up behind you who wants you to edge right up to the line).

anewman

rev_henry wrote: »

Surely what is called for here is a modified 'tyres and tarmac rule' in the form of 'stop line and tarmac': leave enough space so you can see the stop line (instead of the car in front's tyres) and a bit of tarmac so you have enough space to pull to one side to let an ambulance etc through without crossing the line. That way everyone's happy (except maybe the !!!!!! right up behind you who wants you to edge right up to the line).

With all the weigh anchors on the roads I doubt that would work unfortunately.

zappahey

Lum wrote: »

If there is a camera at that red light and your wheels so much as touch that stop line it will set the camera off

Any references for this because it sounds like utter nonsense to me.

anewman

zappahey wrote: »

Any references for this because it sounds like utter nonsense to me.

http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/traffic-light-camera.htm

Lum

zappahey wrote: »

Any references for this because it sounds like utter nonsense to me.

The link that anewman posted is pretty much correct. Basically if it detects anything moving on that line it will take two pictures 0.5 seconds apart. This doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get done as the films are reviewed back in the ticket office with some photo pairs being converted into full on offences and an NIP getting issued. If the photos show you moving forward then it's going to be an offence, if not you're relying on the competence of the ticket office staff (basically civil servants, make of that what you will ) to spot this and not prosecute you.

The cameras can be set so that they are not triggered below a certain speed or if the red light has been on for only a certain number of seconds, and some partnerships do this however I do not have a definitive list of what each partnership sets their thresholds at (and even if I did they can change it at any time) so I have to assume they're all set to any speed and 0 second leniency, it's the only way to be safe.

Edit: I have also seen this happen, several years back with a camera in Liverpool. I'm stopped a few cars back in the left lane, and some muppet in a Mondeo came down the right lane, noticed the red light too late and slammed on the anchors, coming to a stop half way across the stop line, causing the camera to flash twice. He then put it in reverse and reversed back to the correct position which again caused the camera to flash twice. Lastly (and this was the part that made me laugh the most) he set off while the light was on red+amber causing another pair of camera flashes, now there's 4 possible ways this could turn out depending on how the film is processed at the ticket office:

1) The correct way (IMO) - Film operator is paying attention and records a single offence, NIP issued for £60/3pts
2) 3 NIPs issued - The film operator is an idiot and just flags them all as offences
3) 2 NIPs issued - The film operator correctly spots that the guy is reversing in the second pair of pictures and doesn't issue an offence for this, but then they fail to realise it's the same car in the third pair (could easilly happen on a multilane junction if someone else also triggered the camera between the second and third transgression. It's also worth noting that this outcome could be considered correct as the offence is crossing the stop line while the light is not green, something this guy managed to do twice
4) No NIPs issued - The camera has no film in it, the film gets damaged/lost/destroyed or is found to not be in compliance with some obscure rule that only the likes of Nick Freeman really understand.

BikerEd

Read this - http://www.freewheelers.org.uk/index.php/news/news-archive/31-reacting-to-emergency-vehicles - it has some common sense advice published by the IAM and the emergency services.

I ride a bike fitted with blue lights and sirens which I use in emergency situations to clear a path through heavy traffic. I am trained in what to do approaching any hazard while on blues & twos and I have a legal exemption to go through red lights and to the right of a keep left bollard. So if necessary I can go through a set of traffic lights by going over to the other side of the road if I think it is safe to do so. The biggest problem I have is people who react unpredictably e.g. those who panic. There is a balance in an emergency between getting to an emergency quickly and getting there safely. I would much rather people leave the risk taking to me and not put themselves into situations which could cause an accident and possibly another emergency. Read the article and think!

Money_Grabber13579

My driving instructor always said, just get out of the way. If that meant mounting a pavement, crossing a line at traffic lights, then so be it. But don't just drive through the lights and continue on your merry way; just drive forward a bit and pull over to the side of the road.

And by the way, the traffic coming the other way should see the emergency vehicle too is they are any way observant, and so should stop if safe to do so.