red traffic lights and emergency vehicle

Lum

molby73 wrote: »

And if they are stuck behind someone at a light and can't move anywhere else?

No way do you sit still and firmly state you are following the law to the letter. You check to see if it's safe and move over. No one would say to blindly pull out in front of traffic. Madness, I can't believe people think this way.

The difference between you and people who think this way is you haven't yet been on (or had someone you care about be on) the receiving end of a fixed penalty notice for doing this. You haven't had the pleasure of some jumped up civil servant outright accuse you of lying and to just pay up because you comitted a criminal offence. You haven't taken it to court, played the magistrate lottery, lost and gotten some miserable git who hates cars accuse you of lying and jack the fine up to a few hundred quid plus costs, oh and don't forget the £15 "victims of crime" surcharge that is automatically added if you take it to court and lose. That one's a real kicker when you were trying to help possibly save someone's life.

This is what 10 years of a government policy replacing real police officers with automated boxes at the side of the road does to people. It's why driving standards are so much worse these days and why nobody has any respect for the police any more.

If this hasn't happened to you yet, you are either young, lucky, or don't drive very much. I have to be honest that I envy you for that.

Criticise the law, not the people.

hissingsid

According to Steve Garrod, Training Manager of the Driving Instructor's Association "......although many don't follow the advice, blue light drivers are trained to switch off the siren and hold back until the traffic lights change---thereby not causing panic to surrounding traffic and causing another accident, or if possible, to pass through the red light treating it as a give way sign". Elsewhere in the article he strongly advises remaining behind the white line.

Just thought I'd throw this in as it seems that anyone who assumes they should cross the line is on dodgy ground. That doesn't mean I wouldn't do it, but in the past I would
have incorrectly assumed I should, if at all possible and if reasonably safe, cross the line.

sarahg1969

hissingsid wrote: »

According to Steve Garrod, Training Manager of the Driving Instructor's Association "......although many don't follow the advice, blue light drivers are trained to switch off the siren and hold back until the traffic lights change---thereby not causing panic to surrounding traffic and causing another accident, or if possible, to pass through the red light treating it as a give way sign". Elsewhere in the article he strongly advises remaining behind the white line.

Just thought I'd throw this in as it seems that anyone who assumes they should cross the line is on dodgy ground. That doesn't mean I wouldn't do it, but in the past I would
have incorrectly assumed I should, if at all possible and if reasonably safe, cross the line.

Precisely - they are trained to deal with these situations. The best thing to do at lights is sit tight and let them do the thinking.

DCodd

molby73 wrote: »

And if they are stuck behind someone at a light and can't move anywhere else?

No way do you sit still and firmly state you are following the law to the letter. You check to see if it's safe and move over. No one would say to blindly pull out in front of traffic. Madness, I can't believe people think this way.

Ok you are sitting at a light and the emergency vehicle is behind you with nowhere to go. What do you do? move forward and maybe block the exit of the junction the emergency vehicle needs to take? Then what? you have to move again, this time to the middle of the junction?

of course if you can move safely away from the vehicle you do. But can you forsee all complications you may cause yourself. other road users and the emergency vehicle itself? Sometimes it is better to stay put. Could you live with the consequences of causing an accident that injured youg child or someone just to find out the fire engine was only on a false alarm?

I do move if I can, but don't hang the people who do not they are just as justified. no one can know the consequences of any action they take and if the people who stay put do not feel confident enough to move then it would be more dangerous to force them to!!

Batchy

Lum wrote: »

The difference between you and people who think this way is you haven't yet been on (or had someone you care about be on) the receiving end of a fixed penalty notice for doing this. You haven't had the pleasure of some jumped up civil servant outright accuse you of lying and to just pay up because you comitted a criminal offence. You haven't taken it to court, played the magistrate lottery, lost and gotten some miserable git who hates cars accuse you of lying and jack the fine up to a few hundred quid plus costs, oh and don't forget the £15 "victims of crime" surcharge that is automatically added if you take it to court and lose. That one's a real kicker when you were trying to help possibly save someone's life.

This is what 10 years of a government policy replacing real police officers with automated boxes at the side of the road does to people. It's why driving standards are so much worse these days and why nobody has any respect for the police any more.

If this hasn't happened to you yet, you are either young, lucky, or don't drive very much. I have to be honest that I envy you for that.

Criticise the law, not the people.

I agree with you completely

I would move, especially if safe and no camera's but you have described exactly what the problem of taking snap shots of crimes, rather than 5 - 20 seconds of video footage would prove, and what the eyes of a police office would see.

Imagine an office trying to convict someone of an offence of GBH cause of a picture... you need video footage, why is anything else any different.

some times they are not as black and white as a picture can show!

regards

Mark

sarahg1969

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1130083_fined_for_letting_police_pass

Lum

sarahg1969 wrote: »

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1130083_fined_for_letting_police_pass

Yet another normal, sensible, person who likely now has a grudge against the police and isn't going to get out of the way to let them (or an ambulance or fire engine) get to their destination any sooner.

Pretty much backs up what I said one post above yours. Good job "Safety" camera partnership.

datostar

Lum wrote: »

Yet another normal, sensible, person who likely now has a grudge against the police and isn't going to get out of the way to let them (or an ambulance or fire engine) get to their destination any sooner.

Pretty much backs up what I said one post above yours. Good job "Safety" camera partnership.

I think this is the definitive answer to this. Do not pass red lights unless directed to do so by a police officer. Even then, I would expect the police officer to be absolutely certain it was safe to do so, not just waving and/or shouting from behind. I'm ex-police traffic patrol myself and shooting traffic lights and keep left bollards is one of the most risky things you can do. Rest assured there's very little sympathy for a driver who does it and gets it wrong. An emergency vehicle involved in an accident doesn't get there at all and it ties up others dealing with the mess!
Perhaps a digression, but is it just me who has difficulty identifying where the sound of a modern electronic siren is coming from? The sound seems to eddy and swirl around all over the place and it's not until you can actually see the vehicle that you can be sure where it is. The old air two tone horns seemed to be much more directional.

before_hollywood

Lum wrote: »

Yet another normal, sensible, person who likely now has a grudge against the police and isn't going to get out of the way to let them (or an ambulance or fire engine) get to their destination any sooner.

Pretty much backs up what I said one post above yours. Good job "Safety" camera partnership.

safety and cameras dont go together

its like saying people dont speed because there are staff in shops

Gordon861

sarahg1969 wrote: »

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1130083_fined_for_letting_police_pass

The stupid thing is that he says he doesn't plan to appeal the ticket. He should at least stand in front of a magistrate and try to get the thing dropped.

The more people that just rollover and accept these tickets without trying to get it overturned the longer it will take for the law to be changed and clarify exactly what they want you to do.