Amex and Chip'n'pin

JohalaReewi

Same for telephone and other distance transactions where you and your card are not present at the point of sale.

not-so-civil

I agree with "got a biscuit?" the &more which is a mastercard is chipped but not pin enabled.

Juan_Nil_2

So what happens with transactions via the web?

Are seller's forms going include a field for you to enter your PIN number?

If the seller's form does not have field for you to type your PIN number then are they liable for fraud?

Are sellers evan able to ask for you PIN number in this way?

As I understood it, the only place you enter your PIN is into a terminal at a shop. You NEVER give it over the phone or use it on the internet.

The only security number you might get asked for is the 3 digit code on the security strip on the back of your card (or 4 digit number on the front if it's AMEX)

N9eav

I suppose if the retailer does not accept your credit/debit card, then just leave the good there and walk away. we will soon see how long they want to play that game.

derrick

I spoke to Capitol One today as my credit card is not chipped,they said chip & pin is not obligatory until 2006, as my Master card is valid until 02/06 they have said that retailers should/will accept it until then and allow me to sign as now,but prior to 2006 I will be issued with a chip&pin card, if retailers do not allow non chipped card holders to sign they are breaking the master/visa card rules.

alexj2002

For some reason my brand new Halifax Visa Debit Card which came with loads of "ChipNPin" leaflets etc. "Here's your new Chip and Pin card" etc. stuff doesn't actually work in any machine and ends up printing a reciept to sign?

Is there a chance the card will be rejected by retailers come 1st January and is it worth contacting Halifax to let them know it's faulty?

freddyfeet

I'm confused. I am a retailer and the way I read the instructions from barclays merchant services was that the retailer was only liable if they let a customer sign and the retailer was not chip and pin enabled (i.e. did not have a new style terminal.) However, I thought that if we have a new terminal we could still let customers sign who had forgotten their pin and certainly still accept older cards which have not been chipped.
And as a little by-note -- retailers are money-savers and consumers too and we HATE Amex. They charge about 5% commission as opposed to about 1.75% for visa. They also charge £10 for the privelage of informing you that they have your money unless you register on-line for paperless statements. I would never use Amex personally on the principle that they are so greedy. ???

Pendragon_2

Let me clear up one or two points.

January 1st basically does not affect customers - if a shop accepts your card before January 1st, they will continue to do so afterwards.

If your card does not have Chip & PIN active (note that it may have a chip but no PIN), then January 1st will make NO difference whatsoever.

If your card does have Chip & PIN, retailers (who have the Chip & PIN terminals) are currently allowed to override the PIN and ask you to sign. After January 1st, retailers will still be allowed to do this if they wish to (though it "will be discontinued as soon as it is practical to do so" (https://www.chipandpin.co.uk)). However, I expect that they are unlikely to do so due to the shift of liability.

Again, this has no direct affect on the customer. What it means is that currently if a transaction is found to fraudulent, the card company picks up the bill. After January 1st, if the card is Chip & PIN enabled and the use of PIN could have prevented the fraud, then the retailer will have to pick up the bill. A couple of examples to demonstrate:

Example 1
The customer pays using a Chip & PIN enabled card but claims to have forgotten the PIN. The retailer overrides the PIN and lets the customer sign. The transaction is then found to be fraudulent. The retailer would pick up the bill.

Example 2
The customer pays using a Chip & PIN enabled card but the retailer does not have a Chip & PIN terminal. The till automatically prints out a slip for the customer to sign. The transaction is then found to be fraudulent. The retailer would pick up the bill.

Example 3
The customer pays using a card that is not Chip & PIN enabled (it may still have a chip). Because there is no PIN for the card, the till automatically prints a slip for the customer to sign. The transaction is then found to be fraudulent. The card company would pick up the bill.

So the only customers that January 1st will affect is the few who have a Chip & PIN enabled card that haven't learnt the PIN - the retailer is less likely to let them sign. But I stress again, cards that are not Chip & PIN enabled (even though it may still have a chip) will still be able to be used like they are now.

As Juan_Nil said, Chip & PIN is only used in shops - it makes no difference to card-not-present transactions (for example over the Internet or the phone).

It is worth having a look at the official website: https://www.chipandpin.co.uk

clock24

Pendragon.

I'm now confused (so what's new?) - if the example 2 above is correct then the retailer would surely not accept chip&pin cards until after he has got a terminal, if he is liable for any fraud?? So you might find your card is useless in some places?

omega27

Yes but how would a retailer know whether the card was PIN enabled? It might just have a chip, ala Amex. So may as well just get the equipment, or give up taking cards at all!