Amex and Chip'n'pin

MSE_Martin

On Jan 1, chip 'n' pin comes properly into effect. This means retailers are much less likely to allow customers to 'sign', as if they do, from the 1 Jan, they are liable in the case of a fraudulent transaction.

So what happens if you've got an Amex card which doesn't have chip'n'pin.

Here's the answers from my questions to Amex.

Q: What is the fraud liability due to chip'n'pin with amex ?

A : Beginning January 1, the liability for fraud moves to the weakest link in the chain,so,if a consumer uses a chip/PIN card but the merchant doesn't have a
chip/PIN terminal, the merchant accepts the liability.

If the consumer uses a chip/PIN card and the merchant DOES have a chip/PIN terminal, the issuer accepts the liability.

American Express does not currently issue cards that have active chips on them and so Cardmembers need not worry because the liability will remain
with us in all cases. (Martin Insert: ie use an Amex and Amex, not the retailer is liable)

Q: Amex cards don't have chip'n'pin. When is it being rolled out ?

A : American Express continues to watch industry developments in the area of Chip & Pin technology with interest, and we have taken part in pilot programmes in the UK already. However, the vast majority of cards issued by American Express in the UK do not have active chips on then.

American Express does not hold its Cardmembers liable for fraudulent charges made on their American Express Card.

Joe_Bloggs

That 'non answer' from American Express is worthy of PMQ's. Will you review the status of the Amex Blue in your purchase card ratings, given their head in the sand, do nothing attitude, towards purchasing realities in the UK.
J_B.
PMQ's (Prime Minister's Questions )

ashcarrot

The more important qn for me is more places going to stop accepting this card, at the moment im waiting for my card anniversary to get rid of it but keep the cashback (although its looks good as its shiny)

MSE_Martin

My view on this card - as i constantly state, is have a amex card for where it can be used and a back up card for where it can't

martin

isasmurf

Can I broaden the cards we're talking about here.  I have another one of the higher paying cashback cards which has a Chip, but when the retailer puts it the chip reader it prints out a receipt to sign.  Will the liability remain with the card issuer in this case as well?

And while I'm asking about this, will I always have to sign until I get a new card, or will I get a shock one day and be asked for my PIN?

johnllew

Does this mean that retailers are going to be less likely to accept Amex cards than they already are?

Zackdog

I have a Halifax debit card without a chip. Asked them when they would be replacing given 1st January changes and their reply was that chip n pin was not fully operational until 2006 so they would replace before then.

Recently told in Woolworths that after 1st Jan they would only be using Chip n Pin and wouldn't be able to sign after that date.

Looks like total confusion by everyone.

not-so-civil

I and my wife use the Marks & Spencer &MORE Card.
This card has good cashback and I am surprised Martin has not rated it. I accept that the cashback is in M&S vouchers, but since most of us shop at some time in M&S they are effectively cash. Their cashback is 1% on M&S purchases and ¹/₂% on other purchases credited quarterly.

However, to get back to my point. I realised from Martin's article that 1 January 2005 was Chip'n'pin day so decided to check with &More. They are not issuing chipnpin until March 2005. I foresee all sorts of problems in shops!!

dthyer

If your card isn't a Chip and PIN one then 1 Jan 2005 shouldn't make any difference to you.

When your card is read, the till should print a signature slip as usual, and you sign as usual. If it turns out that you were a fraudster, the shop doesn't lose out, and the credit card companies take the hit.

If your card is a Chip and PIN one, then pre 1 Jan 2005, the shop can over-ride the PIN requirement, and allow you to sign. If it turns out that you were a fraudster, the shop doesn't lose out, and the credit card companies take the hit.

However, if your card is a Chip and PIN one, then post 1 Jan 2005, the shop may still over-ride the PIN requirement, and allow you to sign. But if it turns out that you were a fraudster, the shop does lose out, and the credit card companies do not take the hit.

For this reason, many shops, from 1 Jan 2005 onwards, will not override PIN request, in the case that you have a Chip & PIN card but have forgotten your PIN.

I suspect in the case of Woolies, they have made a blanket decision to never allow override for Chip & PIN cards post 1 Jan 2005, but that non Chip & PIN cards can still be signed with.

However, although it's all ok in theory I am sure that some individual shop workers will not understand, and unless the till is programmed to take them through the correct course of action, I am sure sometimes confusion will ensue.

DT

Gotabiscuit

Does this mean that retailers are going to be less likely to accept Amex cards than they already are?

Quite probably, I suspect.

What may confuse things even more is that a lot of Amex cards have got chips but they're not PIN enabled.

wibble_2

So what happens with transactions via the web?

Are seller's forms going include a field for you to enter your PIN number?

If the seller's form does not have field for you to type your PIN number then are they liable for fraud?

Are sellers evan able to ask for you PIN number in this way?