Some Benefits should be given in forms of vouchers instead of cash

looby75

Leighthal wrote: »

Another good point.But I'm not convinced in the longer term.People who had blown there benefits on cigs and booze in the past maybe more healthy in the future and more inclined to find work.Less strain on the NHS.But then again once in employment,they could revert back to their old ways but this would be their right as earners.I myself work and recieve WT credits and CT credits.I also drink... and smoke when I drink:o.I know its crud and I think it would help me stop if I recieved my credits in card form.

It would stop you because you are a sensible reasonable person as are most people on benefits. It wouldn't do anything to stop the people who already abuse themselves or their kids by drinking and smoking too much and not using their benefits for the things they are intended to cover such as feeding their children a good diet and paying the rent.

All that would happen is they will use the cards to buy food then sell it on at a discount for cash which they would then use to buy the "forbidden" items. It happens now with the healthy start vouchers that unemployed expectant mums and their children under 3 get. The responsible ones use them to buy baby milk or fruit and veg, the irresponsible ones sell them on for a pack of cigarettes.:rolleyes:

lostinrates

looby75 wrote: »

Ask away I'm pretty thick skinned, I have to be I've been on the dole for 5 years after ex traded me in for a younger model and because of health problems (my own, and my sons) and childcare issues (lack of!)

I've had just about ever insult thrown at me over that time so sensible questions about benefits etc would be a welcome change

thats extremely generous of you, thank you.:)

I can see the benefit of puting everything on a CC with cash back etc, but :owhat sort of credit limit can you get if you have soley benefits income? Is it sufficient to get you through the month?

If there were a (theorticical) system that could weed out the so called ''dodgy'' claimants and ''dodgy spend'' that gave you a more generous benefit value would that appeal and do you think it would help negate the resentment of the judgmental?

dirtyflannel

To be fair it is hard work living these days everyone workers or not have it hard the only thing I would like to see is alcoholics and drug abusers being made to attend help groups if they want benefits cos they obviously get the money for their addictions. One bloke opp in-laws has not worked for over 15 years. Drunk as a skunk from morning till night every day. Taxis everywhere takeaways delivered daily. Nice work if you can get it!!!!

Leighthal

weegie.geek wrote: »

Ever been on a bus? They don't take debit cards.

Back on topic, people are already issued vouchers by the dole: http://www.healthystart.nhs.uk/

As has been mentioned, you don't have to buy the full value of the vouchers on fruit and veg, the supermarkets don't care and there appears to be nothing to stop you buying one apple and using a healthy start voucher. Much the same as using money off vouchers for things you're not even buying at Tesco.

If vouchers were issued instead of cash for benefits, and they managed to fix a way to block people from buying [contraband] with the vouchers, people who were so inclined would sell their vouchers, or sell the stuff they bought with the vouchers for money to buy [contraband]. This will put them in contact with some unsavoury characters. We've all heard of stories where old people got loans from sharks who kept their pension books.

No matter what limitations you create, people will find a way round them, and all it will mean is that it costs the state even more, and the people in receipt of benefits will receive even less of their benefit. The company who wins the contract to administer the scheme will be grateful, but that's about it.

If they actually do manage to create an infallible way to stop people on benefits buying [contraband], they'll find a way to get [contraband]. Some will use it as a reason to quit - using cigs as an example here - but others will go down paths that will be harmful to them and society in general. It's an addiction. Less scrupulous people will just shoplift them. People selling "fake" cigs will find a way to exploit the situation as well, funding god knows what and endangering the health of the smoker and those around them.

Why can this not be implemented?Shoot me down in flames but I think in the not too distant future cash will become obsolete anyway.We are half way there already.

looby75

Snooze wrote: »

You also need to get over justifying your case 300 times. I don't care. The fact still remains that no-one will give two hoots about you not being able to spend your dole vouchers at your farmer's market :rolleyes: if it stops thousands of scrubbers buying drugs (for example).

Rob

I'm pretty sure the farmers would object if no one on benefits was allowed to shop from them. They sell good fresh produce at much lower prices than the supermarkets round here so a lot of people on benefits use the market in fact there is an advertisement for it in our local job centre!

phunkeymonkey

misskool wrote: »

I don't see what this would solve. If you are on benefits and you receive a sum of money, it's up to you what you choose to spend your money on. If you choose to eat unhealthy foods and smoke, that's your freedom of choice.

No it isn't.

Unhealthy foods, cigarettes, alcohol (and generally most things that are bad for you) are IMO luxury items. I do not work hard just so others can live a free luxurious lifestyle.

Generally speaking, I'm a very liberal person and normally would not agree with such a scheme. But when I see so many people living off the state for free with no intention of being socially responsible, but quite happy to have the privileges a caring society provides, it really angers me.

I understand that many hard-working people who have fell on tough times may also be affected by this - perhaps this voucher scheme should only be directed at long-term benefit claimants who make no effort to put anything back.

Leighthal

looby75 wrote: »

It would stop you because you are a sensible reasonable person as are most people on benefits. It wouldn't do anything to stop the people who already abuse themselves or their kids by drinking and smoking too much and not using their benefits for the things they are intended to cover such as feeding their children a good diet and paying the rent.

All that would happen is they will use the cards to buy food then sell it on at a discount for cash which they would then use to buy the "forbidden" items. It happens now with the healthy start vouchers that unemployed expectant mums and their children under 3 get. The responsible ones use them to buy baby milk or fruit and veg, the irresponsible ones sell them on for a pack of cigarettes.:rolleyes:

Good points again Looby75.The only way I can see out of this is to price out cigs and booze that they are not even affordable or attractive to most people anyway.Lets face it,they are useless anyway.But we are opening a whole new can of worms about government control of the masses and revenue.

looby75

lostinrates wrote: »

thats extremely generous of you, thank you.:)

I can see the benefit of puting everything on a CC with cash back etc, but :owhat sort of credit limit can you get if you have soley benefits income? Is it sufficient to get you through the month?

If there were a (theorticical) system that could weed out the so called ''dodgy'' claimants and ''dodgy spend'' that gave you a more generous benefit value would that appeal and do you think it would help negate the resentment of the judgmental?

I don't have any credit available to me unfortunately, ex left me with some debts and because my income support claim took 3 months to come through so I had no choice other than to live on the credit cards I had from before ex left. I'm now on a debt management plan so can't comment on the way aliasojo uses her cards (great idea though!)

TBH I don't think any system would stop some people from being judgemental, it's human nature that if someone feels someone is getting perks that they aren't they will be resentful. I think that even if there were some way of making sure benefit claimants spent the money wisely people would still comment on the fact that they are getting that money handed to them on a plate.

If you are claiming only what you are legally entitled to and not on a fiddle life on benefits is not easy. Unfortunately those claimants that are on the fiddle and not using their money for what it's intended for are the ones who make the news so to speak and the rest of us tend to get tarred with the same brush. I don't think anything is ever going to change that.

lostinrates

looby75 wrote: »

I don't have any credit available to me unfortunately, ex left me with some debts and because my income support claim took 3 months to come through so I had no choice other than to live on the credit cards I had from before ex left. I'm now on a debt management plan so can't comment on the way aliasojo uses her cards (great idea though!)

TBH I don't think any system would stop some people from being judgemental, it's human nature that if someone feels someone is getting perks that they aren't they will be resentful. I think that even if there were some way of making sure benefit claimants spent the money wisely people would still comment on the fact that they are getting that money handed to them on a plate.

If you are claiming only what you are legally entitled to and not on a fiddle life on benefits is not easy. Unfortunately those claimants that are on the fiddle and not using their money for what it's intended for are the ones who make the news so to speak and the rest of us tend to get tarred with the same brush. I don't think anything is ever going to change that.

Thank you. I appreciate your insight, very much.

sjaypink

Snooze wrote: »

The fact still remains that no-one will give two hoots about you not being able to spend your dole vouchers at your farmer's market :rolleyes: if it stops thousands of scrubbers buying drugs (for example).

so, to clarify, youre for an extremely expensive and economically damaging benefit voucher scheme to shame those in receipt, or to stop the money being spent on drugs?

dirtyflannel wrote: »

To be fair it is hard work living these days everyone workers or not have it hard the only thing I would like to see is alcoholics and drug abusers being made to attend help groups if they want benefits cos they obviously get the money for their addictions.

again, the sooner those who think benefit vouchers will reduce drug use in any way need a wake up call

drug addictions are almost always paid for by on the side work or criminal activity. if youre talking fags and booze as opposed to street drugs then, as i made the point earlier, those doing that are actually receiving less benefit (paying more back in taxes) than those who spend the majority of their money on 'essentials'.