Why was IMMMIGRATION ignored in the budget>?

Generali

bendix wrote: »

Generali . .you're a bloody hippy.

You may be surprised to hear that I don't get called that much. Many insults are tossed my way but 'Bloody Hippy'? Once so far including you!

Topov_3

Generali wrote: »

I'm finding this tricky but I'd like to engage in genuine debate, not point scoring.

To start with, do you mind me asking if you've ever lived in a country other than the UK (say for more than 3 months) or do you speak another language well?

Also, at what point do you think immigrants become British? Once they learn the language? Perhaps their kids are once they've been through the British educational system?

I'd love to get some insight into your views, even if I don't agree with you perhaps I can learn from you.

PS - Reading back I sound like some bloody hippy or well meaning Liberal. I'm not.

ALERT ALERT!!!

Dont enter into genuine debate dervish! Its a trick!

Generali will just show you up because you have never left the borders of East Angular and you dont think that anyone is british unless there family can be traced back to before Roman times. dont tell him these things about yourself. dont enter into debate because you will lose and our cause will suffer.

StevieJ

Topov wrote: »

ALERT ALERT!!!

Dont enter into genuine debate dervish! Its a trick!

Generali will just show you up because you have never left the borders of East Angular and you dont think that anyone is british unless there family can be traced back to before Roman times. dont tell him these things about yourself. dont enter into debate because you will lose and our cause will suffer.

Hey DD are you really trying to close the board :rolleyes: Doesn't appear to be working yet give it time.

ruggedtoast

Regardless of how one feels about Dervish a lot of people feel like he does.

Many working class people feel anxious and resentful about their status and will blame whatever is the most apparent threat to the limited resources they thinj they have access to. Immigrants, poorer people, richer people etc.

Decades of neo-liberal free market politicians have beseeched the British working class to stop railing over what the government may or may not be providing and just pull their socks up, work hard at school and jolly well set about "enjoying" an aspirational middle class lifestyle, based around debt, ownership and believing the illusion that they live in a meritocracy.

Well we should believe in a meritocracy, what possible other reason can explain Mr Patel arriving in the 70's to a grim sink estate, working in his shop all hours , putting two kids through University and then migrating out to the affluent suburbs in the 90s when they both become doctors.

Except Mr Patel's kids don't grow up with centuries of conditioning of unspoken resentment. The working class never saw much benefit from empire, despite building and dying for most of it, then after Thatcher tore the guts out of industry in the 80's the resentment only grew as thousands of parents sat at home, unemployed and unwanted with their children soaking up the bitterness and frustration.

So many of the problems in the UK are class based. Until we start addressing that issues like this will rankle forever, and throughout all the broken glass and flying fists every saturday night.

vivatifosi

kennyboy66 wrote: »

Many of you would find this book a cracking read.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bloody-Foreigners-Robert-Winder/dp/0349115664

It tracks the story of immingrants into this country throughout the ages. Dutch, Irish, Flemish, French, German, African, Asian, Carribean, Jewish, Muslim, Protestant, Catholic immigrants- its all in here.

(Dervish - you might not like it).

I can't believe that this thread has been going for so long that I've had time to order, have delivered and start reading the book recommended by Kennyboy66 on this thread last Thursday. He's right, it is a cracking read.

MiserlyMartin

jojo1964 wrote: »

"Its not racist to talk about immigration"

Cant remember who said that now, or whether i got the quote correct, but its true.

That was ex Tory leader, Michael Howard.

ninky_2

Generali wrote: »

You may be surprised to hear that I don't get called that much. Many insults are tossed my way but 'Bloody Hippy'? Once so far including you!

bendix tends to call every one either a hippy, a commie or a fascist. some of us are lucky enough to get called all three!

ninky_2

jojo1964 wrote: »

A quick google reveals this.

Poles working in the UK sent home an estimated £1.8billion last year.
Money Downing Street hoped might be ploughed into the British economy is instead financing a property and consumer boom in Poland.
The Polish Central Bank said the two million Poles who left home to work elsewhere in Europe sent home at least £3billion in 2007 via money orders and electronic financial transactions.
It is estimated that around half of them are in the UK. One Warsaw newspaper estimated the amount sent from Britain to be a record £1.8billion, ten per cent up on 2006.
But the Central Bank said the actual figure could be considerably higher.
Its statistics do not take into account the thousands of Poles who preferred to travel home on coaches or planes with their earnings in cash.
This would include those working in the "black economy" and thus not paying tax.
Experts say the figure for 2008 is likely to be even higher as Poles continue to cash in on the good wages available in the UK.

this is typical of the narrow thinking of the xenophobe. humans have moved around the globe since they existed. the fact they take some of their resources with them when they do is no new thing. our ancestors were no different.

have you considered that by large numbers of poles now speak english and building up their country / economy this might actually benefit us or our children? the current situation could well be creating a great new place for english speaking brits to move to in the future? along with new markets that it will be easier for uk companies to access.

i wonder what thinkers like you would have made of it when large numbers of brits left uk to go and live overseas in places like america, new zealand etc taking their wealth with them to create a property / economic boom in foreign lands?

your thinking is far too "them" and "us". the reality is far more fluid. there will be winners and losers on both sides.

instead of moaning about shifting populations, try seeing the opportunities this could present.

i always think it's interesting to know what immigrants make of the new country they find themselves in. here are some of the things some poles think about britain.

http://www.polishforums.com/the_poles_living_abroad_think-31_1256_0.html

i particularly liked the comment about the lack of mixer taps. my iranian OH had the same response. apparently no iranian would consider buying a home with separate taps for hot and cold water!

bendix

ninky wrote: »

bendix tends to call every one either a hippy, a commie or a fascist. some of us are lucky enough to get called all three!

But I only do that to the ones I like, ninky.

jojo1964

ninky wrote: »

this is typical of the narrow thinking of the xenophobe. humans have moved around the globe since they existed. the fact they take some of their resources with them when they do is no new thing. our ancestors were no different.

have you considered that by large numbers of poles now speak english and building up their country / economy this might actually benefit us or our children? the current situation could well be creating a great new place for english speaking brits to move to in the future? along with new markets that it will be easier for uk companies to access.

i wonder what thinkers like you would have made of it when large numbers of brits left uk to go and live overseas in places like america, new zealand etc taking their wealth with them to create a property / economic boom in foreign lands?

your thinking is far too "them" and "us". the reality is far more fluid. there will be winners and losers on both sides.

instead of moaning about shifting populations, try seeing the opportunities this could present.

i always think it's interesting to know what immigrants make of the new country they find themselves in. here are some of the things some poles think about britain.

http://www.polishforums.com/the_poles_living_abroad_think-31_1256_0.html

i particularly liked the comment about the lack of mixer taps. my iranian OH had the same response. apparently no iranian would consider buying a home with separate taps for hot and cold water!

The question posed was whether, or not, money was being sent home, or siphoned off, by the immigrant workforce, i simply showed that, during a quick google, it showed yes.

Dont see anything xenophobic about it, simply trying to further the debate.

The response you have given shows that it is still almost impossible to debate immigration in a cordial manner without accusations being bandied about.