Opinions please.

orlao

So sorry about Jaffa, Mutter.

I also agree with most of the above posters.

I had this fairly recently with my Rott- he had suspected osteosarcoma and while I was waiting for the 2nd xrays I made a decision that if it was OS that he would be PTS as soon as he was no longer comfortable as the treatment (as in many cancers!) is brutal with a very poor long term prognosis. Luckily, it's looking like it's another cruciate ligament! But I did have a month of "should I treat it or was it just selfishness on my part because I didn't want to lose my pet?"

It's so hard but I think you should go with your instincts....you know and love your dog better than anyone else.....and you have his best interest at heart!

lowis

orlao wrote: »

So sorry about Jaffa, Mutter.

I also agree with most of the above posters.

I had this fairly recently with my Rott- he had suspected osteosarcoma and while I was waiting for the 2nd xrays I made a decision that if it was OS that he would be PTS as soon as he was no longer comfortable as the treatment (as in many cancers!) is brutal with a very poor long term prognosis. Luckily, it's looking like it's another cruciate ligament! But I did have a month of "should I treat it or was it just selfishness on my part because I didn't want to lose my pet?"

It's so hard but I think you should go with your instincts....you know and love your dog better than anyone else.....and you have his best interest at heart!

i had no idea chemo/treatment for cancer in dogs was brutal, with poor prognosis. it must be different for cats, you wouldn't have known my cat had chemo/cancer when she was having treatment...the only sign of the treatment was her whiskers falling out - but they grew back again after the last dose of chemo. poor doggies

orlao

lowis wrote: »

i had no idea chemo/treatment for cancer in dogs was brutal, with poor prognosis. it must be different for cats, you wouldn't have known my cat had chemo/cancer when she was having treatment...the only sign of the treatment was her whiskers falling out - but they grew back again after the last dose of chemo. poor doggies

OS is bone cancer,a tumour growing in the bone marrow and breaking the bone as it expands......the only effective pain relief is amputation but the real killer is that in something like 90% of cases mini tumours have spread, usually to the lungs before any bone tumour is diagnosed......chemo is used to try and control these. I don't think the chemo is the major problem TBH but approx 50% of dogs do not survive a year even with treatment.Longer term survival rates are even lower, it really is a case of buying time, not a cure. It's a horrible, horrible cancer, much worse than many IMHO.

In my dogs case, his back legs have already had cruciate repairs so to lose a front leg could (would?) cause severe mobility problems anyway and as a very active dog I didn't feel that he would have been content at 5 years old to have such limited mobility and also the thought of putting him through such major surgery and pain with a very limited chance of even surviving a year felt selfish to me - that is only MY view of MY dog, no offence intended to anyone who might choose a different path in a similar situation. I asked the vet to ring me with the prognosis before they brought him out of a GA so that if things had progressed as we feared I could make that awful decision before he suffered any longer.....without treatment, survival is weeks rather than months.

Luckily, the shadow that was seen on his original xray had disappeared so he was woken up (in a very bad mood, he then refused point blank to go back to a kennel) and when I went to collect him he was in the xray room,covered with a blanket and a piece of paper pinned on it saying "DO NOT DISTURB" :rotfl:The staff had worked round him all afternoon! I did pity them as he has a gut that could blister paint after a GA and it was a very small room:eek:

It was a very difficult time for me and I'm thrilled that he should be ok now (trip to RVC next week to see if it is another cruciate repair jobby) but I can understand and sympathise with Mutter at the moment as it's all very fresh in my mind IYSWIM

Mutter_2

Thankyou all for your kind words. seems unanimous then, not to operate. hope you are not just being gentle with me as I said no surgical intervention.
Don't know how to do clever quotie things but more explanation.

Vet could do ulrtasound without anaesthetic, but full xray under anaethsia would give better result. Depending on the result, operate. If spleen go ahead, liver of course no.
FC, yes, you are right, secondary Epilepsy. Therefore caused by a secondary condition. Maybe blood to the brain being poisoned due to liver failure and who knows what else? 50% possibility of cancer apparently.
All blood tests done. Anaemic ... slightly. Feed him some liver, advice from Vet.

I said, Jaffa cannot walk for 10 minutes now without exhaustion. "This is like us trying to climb a mountain without oxygen", Vet said.

Jaffa had a further fit today on the lawn. Heard him screaming.
Jaf is not a sun worshipper, always gets out of the heat. I put a golf brolly over him and an ice pack on his back. One hour until he could stand, then I lifted him into the house.
Vet at a.m tuesday for blood test, see how the medication is working?
Thankyou all.

elsien

Poor baby, sounds horrible for you both. If he were mine, I think I'd look at what further non-invasive tests there might be and just do my best to get him sorted and comfortable. 13 is old for a big operation to just give you a few more months. That's not being gentle, just realistic. I'm sorry.

suki1964

How heartbreaking for you to have to hear him scream from his fitting.:(

Perhaps you need to be saying your goodbyes now if his fits are so debilitating. I know its so very hard to let such a loved dog go, but its the most loving thing you can do


((((Hugs))) to you both xxxxxx.

Mutter_2

suki1964 wrote: »

How heartbreaking for you to have to hear him scream from his fitting.:(

Perhaps you need to be saying your goodbyes now if his fits are so debilitating. I know its so very hard to let such a loved dog go, but its the most loving thing you can do


((((Hugs))) to you both xxxxxx.

But Vets say the bood curdling screams are not pain. I think they must be, Why else would a dog scream?
Jaf after hours of recuperation wags his tail. Best sight in the world. Waggy tail.
Suki, i tried to broach the inevitable with OH tonight.
"What iff, in the morning?

It's , " We will cope"

foreign_correspondent

Mutter, in my limited experience, witnessing a fit is almost always far more distressing than having one is... the person or animal having the fit knows little about it, but may feel tired and disorientated afterwards

suki1964

Mutter wrote: »

But Vets say the bood curdling screams are not pain. I think they must be, Why else would a dog scream?
Jaf after hours of recuperation wags his tail. Best sight in the world. Waggy tail.
Suki, i tried to broach the inevitable with OH tonight.
"What iff, in the morning?

It's , " We will cope"

My OH had to leave the house whilst I called the vet out.Although he knew the time had come he just couldnt bring himself to make the call.

I dont know where I found the strength to be honest but my darling boy went to sleep in my arms on his sofa in the kitchen being fed his favourite malteasers.

I did feel that perhaps there was something more we could have done, and I did have feelings of guilt, perhaps he wasnt ready to go. But I know really that it was the right time, we couldn't bear seeing him struggle and he was worn out with the fight.

Mutter, you know your lad better then anyone, you do what you feel is right

YorkiePud_3

I agree with FC ... it is heartbreaking to see your pet fitting ... more so because you know there is nothing you can do, short of watching to make sure they don't bang their heads against anything.

My little Yorkie I had a few years ago had very violent fits. They started off coming a couple of times a month and were horrendous. But after they passed and he slept for 3 or 4 hours (and I mean SOLID sleep as though he was drugged!), he would get up and be back to normal again.

As cruel as fits are, I always said if any of my pets were to have them, that was the sort to have ... the ones that don't leave any bad after effects.

Gradually the fits became worse until he went into a continual one that he couldn't come out of and I had to make that dreadful decision. The fit became more violent at the vets, so I took that as my confirmation I was doing right ... you always think well, he'll be okay after it, when it finishes but you are never prepared for them to not come out of them.

I'm not telling you all this to upset you, I'm telling you, being realistic, that it was a good 4 years between Toby starting with fits to them becoming uncontrollable ... he was never given medication for them and they soon passed off within 20 minutes at most.

I don't think he felt pain or anything during them ... his eyes were glazed and he didn't seem aware of anything (which would be the best thing, of course). After a very sleepy time he would be back to normal again.

Perhaps your dog felt the fit coming on, looked for you and panicked when you weren't there and that's why he made those noises?
Toby would always walk towards me VERY slowly just minutes before a fit would start, so I knew he knew one was coming on. Being that size of course, it was easy to scoop him up and hold him.

What I am saying is that as bad as they seem, they really can go on for some time before the fits get too much!

Am thinking of you this morning ... got a vet visit here too. My rescue cockatiel who just freaks out being moved or around strangers, (and would probably end up flapping round the cage and hurting himself to have to go to the vets) so that's £58 straight up for the vet to come visit us at home ... I tell you, we would be millionaires if we didn't have pets ... still, they're worth every penny!

Hope things go well at the vets.