Punishment for benefit fraud

ceecee1

I've been puzzling about how it could have reached such an amount.

The most common causes of benefit fraud are (in no particular order)

Working - but you say you have no knowledge of your brother working or ever working. Has his wife been working?

Living together - you have already said that their claim is linked so the DWP must already have them as a couple

Undeclared capital - if either your brother or his wife have undeclared savings then they don't need your dads money to repay the debt !

An improvement in capability for receiving DLA. If this was the case the overpayment would have to go back in excess of 5 years - very difficult to prove unless they have been working in a job which directly affects the stated incapacity.


The cynical bit of me says - have they really been 'fiddling the Social' is there any chance they might just want some money??

I'm really sorry if that offends you. Please tell your dad to get some proper advice before handing over any money. This could well affect any future help that he might need.

System

generaloneill wrote: »

Well basically what was the 40k for? Claiming for stuff he didnt have?

I honestly don't know.
I know at he has had motability cars so I assume that's part of it but they have taken that from him now. I would like to think somewhere along the line he saved some of it and can therefore pay it back himself rather than have my dad bail him out. Mainly because he doesn't appear to have anything to show for it. They don't have much in the way of gadgets etc though I suppose they could confiscate their electrical goods, they haven't been on loads of holidays etc. According to my dad if you went into their house there is no evidence of them having been in receipt of loads of money.

However if my dad bailing him out isn't going to affect his punishment then I'll pass that information on to my dad.

Does anyone know anything about my other query re what would happen if dad had to go into a nursing home in the future and had disposed of capital by giving it to my brother?

I want to reiterate that this is about looking out for my dad. I am so unbelievably angry that he has to worry so much about 1 of us at his time of life.

System

ceecee1 wrote: »

The cynical bit of me says - have they really been 'fiddling the Social' is there any chance they might just want some money??

I'm really sorry if that offends you. Please tell your dad to get some proper advice before handing over any money. This could well affect any future help that he might need.

No, it's definitely fraud and I should point out my brother hasn't asked for help, my dad is just offering. My brother is apparently waiting for advice from his solicitor. He's probably getting legal aid for that too.:mad:

ceecee1

Sorry again for offending you - I am a suspicious old so an so at times!

They have had their mobility car taken off them - assuming that the car was in your brothers name then for the overpayment to have reached that amount then they have either gone back an awful long time or some work has been going on which has affected income support and housing and council tax benefit.

BUT - that's not your question - I'm not an expert on deprivation of capital, however if your dad was to go into a nursing home (and I have in the back of my mind that the council can look back 7 years - but I could be very wrong on that) they will certainly look at how his money has reduced.

If he has spent that money on repaying a debt which wasnt his they could well say that he had deprived himself of it.

If your dad pays half of the overpayment your brother will still have to repay the balance of the debt from any future benefit payments. He just wont have to pay them for quite as long.

If I were you I would advise your dad to hang fire......when the case has got to crown court speak to your brothers barrister to see if he thinks that reducing the overpayment would help to reduce any sentence. This could be months away yet.

System

ceecee1 wrote: »

Sorry again for offending you - I am a suspicious old so an so at times!

ceecee1 I wasn't in any way offended . I'm just grateful that so many people have taken the time to reply.
I know this is a contraversial topic to post about here but I'm trying to protect my dad's interests and I suppose ultimately save him money and spare him trouble later.

Happychappy

I would not advise your father to pay anything towards the debt owed, I do not believe it would make a jot of difference in sentencing as the money has clearly come from a relative and not from anything the offender did to repay the money. He will not be given credit for paying the money back and I would imagine the giving up of a large sum of money would be looked upon negatively when your father needs help with social care?

Your father just needs to except it is not his responsibilty and his efforts to pay back the money would be a waste of time and his money. Hopefully a long sentance will give your brother time to reflect, just doesnt unfortunately help the family. A sad situation.

cattie

If your brother has lost his mobility car then the dwp must suspect him of dla fraud & possibly incapacity benefit fraud. Also these 2 benefits can carry extra disability premiums paid via income support, so there could be additional fraud there.

If he isn't prosecuted by DWP, they will expect him to repay all the money he has falsely claimed, but it won't have to be repaid in a lump sum. He will be asked to make regular payments towards the debt, even if it takes a lifetime or more to do so.

As others have said here, your father certainly shouldn't risk his own money & future by offering to pay any of his money towards your brother's fraudelent claim as it's unlikely to make any difference to the final outcome.

The only thing that may have a bearing on the final outcome/penalty is if your brother is truly contrite for what he has done & genuinely wishes to repay every penny that he wasn't entitled to back to DWP.

The last thing your father needs is to find himself in the future of being considered having deprived himself of assets unnecessarily should he ever be in need of going into care.

cjsbn

I am also concerned as I am now awaiting an outcome. I have been exercising at home to strengthen my legs and use have used a walker for a couple of months as well as have a wheelchair. I didnt notify dwp that I had done this and now am in trouble and am worried what my outcome will be. I also am on incapacity should I be doing anything with that as well?

Duncombe

OP - there is a poster who knows all about deprivation of capital and i can't for the life of me remember who it is. If i remember, I will PM you their name and you can ask them.

From what I can remember, your Dad choosing to give away £20k (you said your brother owes £40k and your Dad could find half of this) to pay a debt that isnt his would be classed as deprivation of capital.

andyandflo

ceecee1 wrote: »

For your information the threshold for a prison sentence is an overpayment of £20K but that does not mean that everyone who has committed fraud to this extent will go to prison - again personal circumstances, severity, period of the fraud and deception is taken into account.

Hope that helps

Ummm have things changed? I have a friend who worked and claimed for 15 months, then stopped claiming. It was not until 4 years later that by accident they found out what he had done. He was interviewed by the DWP, then the next thing he knew the Police were involved, search warrants etc. Went to Crown Court & went to prison for 12 months. No previous convictions (of good character), debt was for just over £12,000 and had to pay it all back as well!!