Punishment for benefit fraud

Legacy_user

I'm posting this because I'm worried about my dad.

My dad has just told me that 1 of my brothers has been investigated by DWP and they are asking him to pay back a considerable amount of money. I think they are going to investigate his wife too because whatever benefits they were claiming were linked.

Now before anyone gets judgemental I have no sympathy for them and as far as I'm concerned they made their own bed and can lie in it. There are various reasons for this attitude, besides being a law abiding taxpayer, which are not relevant here.

However my dad feels he has to help my brother in the hope of reducing whatever punishment/sentence he is likely to get. He wants to give him money to pay back to DWP but can only afford half the amount. I and my other brother have no problem with this as it's his money to do with as he pleases though we know he'll get no thanks.

My question is therefore directed to anyone who can advise if paying back some of the money will help or will it just be a wasted effort on the part of my dad?

Also, my dad's health isn't what it was and I need to clarify for him what would happen in the event of him having to reside in a nursing home at some later date. By giving away such a sum of money to my brother would the authorities decree that he deliberately deprived himself of some of his capital? The only other asset he has is his house.

ceecee1

The sanctions for benefit fraud really depend on the amount of the overpayment and the level of dishonestly involved.

For overpayments of less than £2,000 its not likely that someone would be prosecuted in court UNLESS they have already been sanctioned for a benefit fraud in the past OR they have deliberately tried to hide their actions, for example, worked in a false name, NINO, or used false or someone elses bank accounts to avoid detection.

If an overpayment is over £2k it is likely that they would be taken to court and again it depends on the amount and deception whether it would stay in magistrates court or be passed up to crown court where the sentences are greater.

It will not matter a jot if the overpayment is repaid before any sanction action. Action will be taken regardless of any repayment. The only time that it may be considered is for sentencing in crown court. I have known someone avoid prison by repaying the overpayment.

For your information the threshold for a prison sentence is an overpayment of £20K but that does not mean that everyone who has committed fraud to this extent will go to prison - again personal circumstances, severity, period of the fraud and deception is taken into account.

Personally I think your dad would be better to hang onto his money. Unless it gets to the point of being sentenced in court it really wont make any difference to any action taken.

Hope that helps

hanny83_2

If the overpayment is under £2000, but in the interview your brother denied that he thought he had done anything wrong he will get an Administrative Penalty which is the overpayment plus a 30% fine. If during the interview he held his hands up and said sorry then he will get a Caution and just have to pay the overpayment back.

If it is a larger overpayment than £2000 he will be prosecuted, if the overpayment is over £10,000 the financial investigation unit may look at assets he may have such as a car etc to take to recover the debt.

Your dad cannot bargain with the DWP. If your brother is on benefits they will look to recover the overpayment week by week. They will also seek it week by week if he is now employed.

hanny83_2

"It will not matter a jot if the overpayment is repaid before any sanction action. Action will be taken regardless of any repayment. The only time that it may be considered is for sentencing in crown court. I have known someone avoid prison by repaying the overpayment."

Magistrates can sentence someone to prison for up to a year depending on whether the offence is time-barred or not.

ceecee1

hanny83 wrote: »

Magistrates can sentence someone to prison for up to a year depending on whether the offence is time-barred or not.

Yes - sorry I forgot that - I was just trying to cover all scenario's in one answer and its not quite that simple.

CC

generaloneill

Say the debt to DWP is 5k plus, would bankruptcy be an option?

hanny83_2

The debt is still recoverable, bankrupt or not.

System

From the limited information my dad has passed on I would guess that the debt is more than £40K:eek:. My brother is not working, nor has he as long as I remember. He has no assets that I know of and lives in social housing. He has never lived the high life with the money and given that he once referred to his benefits as his earnings :mad: I would be surprised if he accepted that he had done anything wrong.

generaloneill

Pam17 wrote: »

From the limited information my dad has passed on I would guess that the debt is more than £40K:eek:. My brother is not working, nor has he as long as I remember. He has no assets that I know of and lives in social housing. He has never lived the high life with the money and given that he once referred to his benefits as his earnings :mad: I would be surprised if he accepted that he had done anything wrong.

Well basically what was the 40k for? Claiming for stuff he didnt have?

ceecee1

Pam - do you know what has caused the overpayment ??

For it to have reached such a large amount it must include more than one benefit or have been going on for an awful long time.

seven-day-weekend

Well tbh, if he has knowingly fraudulently claimed that amount I think he deserves to go to prison!

However as a parent I do understand where your dad is coming from. Having said that, I think it would be throwing good money after bad to pay part of the debt off if the total fraud was for that amount. It will probably make no difference what happens to your brother and may jeopardise your dad later on if, as you say, he needs care in his old age.

He might be better occupied trying to convince your brother to hold his hands up, admit he's done wrong and accept his punishment, whatever it may be, like a man.

Maybe a lawyer may be able to give formal advice to your dad so he knows he's made the right decision.

Hope all works out for your dad and his mind can be put at rest.