Advice needed please - Interview with police on Tuesday

ohreally

You need to realise there are two quite separate issues here. The first one is a complaint has been made, your employer has investigated and concluded you have to attend a disciplinary hearing, one of the potential outcomes being "You are advised that if the allegations are believed to be proven, it will be considered Gross Misconduct under the company disciplinary rules and your employment may be summarily terminated". Since this has been ongoing since mid April and given the potential consequences, have you used your time wisely and joined a trade union?

The second issue is that of the police criminal investigation. This is still ongoing and has a completely different scope and burden of proof. It may well transpire the police don't have a strong case and they drop any interest they may have in you however be aware this has little bearing on your employers disciplinary hearing.

sexyeyes83

ohreally wrote: »

You need to realise there are two quite separate issues here. The first one is a complaint has been made, your employer has investigated and concluded you have to attend a disciplinary hearing, one of the potential outcomes being "You are advised that if the allegations are believed to be proven, it will be considered Gross Misconduct under the company disciplinary rules and your employment may be summarily terminated". Since this has been ongoing since mid April and given the potential consequences, have you used your time wisely and joined a trade union?

The second issue is that of the police criminal investigation. This is still ongoing and has a completely different scope and burden of proof. It may well transpire the police don't have a strong case and they drop any interest they may have in you however be aware this has little bearing on your employers disciplinary hearing.

Thank you for your reply.

I would like to think ive used my time wisely, however becoming part of a trade union wasnt an option. I searched for unions when this first started and was unable to locate one that represents the private care sector. Also the problem that unions are very unlikely to take you on or assist during an issue like this.

timbellina

sexyeyes83 wrote: »

You are advised that if the allegations are believed to be proven, it will be considered Gross Misconduct

Hi sexyeyes - the second bit of bold type is mine. They aren't saying it "is" gross misconduct, they're saying they will "consider" it to be gross misconduct, which leaves the door open to them being proved wrong at some point without them getting into trouble for it. They're just covering their backsides.

Having said which, it also allows them a lot of leeway in regard to their ability to "believe"; and if I believed the police were going to clear me (as I believe they will clear you), I would stress to them that if they decide to believe the allegations are proven without awaiting the result of the police investigation, then you will consider that they are not being reasonable in their assessment and will immediately proceed with a claim for wrongful dismissal and seek damages for their unfairly prejudging a situation when they knew that expert opinion was forthcoming; thereby seeking to intentionally damage your reputation for no reason other than their desire to do so.

Tim

Savvy_Sue

sexyeyes83 wrote: »

Thank you for your reply.

I would like to think ive used my time wisely, however becoming part of a trade union wasnt an option. I searched for unions when this first started and was unable to locate one that represents the private care sector. Also the problem that unions are very unlikely to take you on or assist during an issue like this.

Joining a trade union is ALWAYS an option.

From the TUC website:

Want to join a union?
There are many reasons for joining a union. To find the right union for you and your job, you can call the TUC's know your rights line 0870 600 4 882 (national rate, 8am - 9pm), fill in our online form or use workSMART's online tools to help you choose.

Your employer doesn't have to recognise any particular union: even if it did, you could choose to join a different one.

I typed in the name of a local company providing private sector care in the home into the workSMART tool and got some suggestions.

You may not be able to get representation at this stage, but I'd be surprised if they wouldn't give you some advice.

Snuggles

timbellina wrote: »

I would stress to them that if they decide to believe the allegations are proven without awaiting the result of the police investigation, then you will consider that they are not being reasonable in their assessment and will immediately proceed with a claim for wrongful dismissal and seek damages for their unfairly prejudging a situation when they knew that expert opinion was forthcoming; thereby seeking to intentionally damage your reputation for no reason other than their desire to do so.

Tim

I'm afraid that it is not necessary for the employer to await the outcome of the police investigation (although many employers in such circumstances will do so). I deal with exactly these sorts of situations every day in my work, and the important thing to note is that in the criminal justice system the level of proof required is beyond reasonable doubt. However, civil law only requires something to be proven on the balance of probabilities, and this is what employers work to.

The police may decide not to take the case further, but the employer still has every right to conduct their own disciplinary investigation and hearing. If they believe that the case is proven on the balance of probalities (ie they think it is more likely than not that the allegations are true), they can take the appropriate action.

Snuggles

sexyeyes83 wrote: »

Thats my bold in the above quote, but just curious as to whether thats all a comapny needs to dismiss someone. I could understand if it said "if proven", but believed to be proven I find confusing - especially when the police are still investigation.

Hi, see my other post, but basically yes, if the disciplinary panel believes the allegations to be proven on the balance of probabilities, that is all they need to be able to dismiss someone if the offence constitutes gross misconduct.

onlyforboards_2

Snuggles wrote: »

The police may decide not to take the case further, but the employer still has every right to conduct their own disciplinary investigation and hearing. If they believe that the case is proven on the balance of probalities (ie they think it is more likely than not that the allegations are true), they can take the appropriate action.

They can but unless they have something more than the employee being in a communal hallway with access shared with lots of their people when an item was apparently stolen at an unspecified time they will find it hard to defend their decision at tribunal.

Snuggles

onlyforboards wrote: »

They can but unless they have something more than the employee being in a communal hallway with access shared with lots of their people when an item was apparently stolen at an unspecified time they will find it hard to defend their decision at tribunal.

Yes I agree. If the allegations are as the OP has stated, ie that money went missing from a service users home during a four day period when several people visited the property, and an item went missing from a communal hallway, then I don't think a reasonable person could conclude that on the balance of probabilities the OP was responsible, unless the OP has any sort of track record for dishonesty.

OP, I'm not sure if you know how many other people visited the service user during the four day period, but this is something I would really keep questioning during a disciplinary hearing if I were you - what grounds does the employer have for believing it was you instead of one of those other people?

LinasPilibaitisisbatman

With the utmost respect if that was the circumstances there is no danger the police would have arrested the OP etc.

Mar.cresham

Hi.

I just came across your post this evening. I have to say reading down this iv found it upsetting the way you have been treated all this time.

Im sorry to say I cant help you with any info (but see some great otheirs have) Would just like to wish you all the best and I hope this all works out for you.

Best of luck.