Destruction of the Building Industry

vivatifosi

leveller2911 wrote: »

Skilled vocations are still frowned upon and to be honest unless this is addressed I can see quality of housebuilding falling and lots of skill used in renovating historic building being totally lost forever.Earnings will go up in the long term as good tradesmen retire the skills will be sort after more and as such rates will rise.

Very true. My Dad is past retirement age but still working. One of his skills is that he is a dry stone waller. If it wasn't for the fact that he's 70 and finds it hard, he could get paid to do that all day every day. There just aren't other people in the market ready to take over. These days he prefers interior fit-out work because its cleaner, dryer, warmer, less prone to the vaguaries of British weather and less arduous.

lostinrates

leveller2911 wrote: »

I suppose for some white collar workers it would "stick in their throats " for manual workers to earn more money.

I don't think it should.. Not for skilled work, not for knowledgable work. I have to get people to do stuff I just physically cannot do, I'm not very strong or balanced now, and doing some normal relatively unskilled stuff that shouldn't be beyond me is, and tbh paying a lot for that DOES frustrate me, but paying for good acquired skills and indeed, natural talent, thats a very different thing.

viva, there are some young women round here I've noticed drystone walling. Hedgelaying, good, hedgelaying, is also a decreasing trade. People like the idea of these old trades, but the reality of hard work an inclement weather puts many off in reality.

neil324

lynzpower wrote: »

that £120 day rate, do you pay your tax & NI out of that? or is that something you pay ie by being SE?

Thats a gross wage, but yeh im self employed. I'd bite someones hand clean off for work even at £100 but there is nothing about.

Just to touch on what others are saying about qualification. They mean nothing in my trade. You can get NVQ level 2 in a day, if you can meet the standard. How do you think all these Poles are getting in. Some of the best trowels i have seen have never been anywhere near a college.

bo_drinker

It's like I have said before I am self employed and you are treated like sc um. I am diversifying now a case of having to. The good money has gone for now, maybe for a few years but there will be a shortage of skilled blokes if things ever get better.

mr.broderick

tesuhoha wrote: »

Thatcher destroyed the manufacturing industry in this country and now this government have all but destroyed the building industry. There are a lot of construction workers now in the dole queue because there is no work for them. That goes for all trades. The only people who are working are the contractors that are undercutting everyone else and they are only employing the cream of the industry at present on very low wages.

Well, some of you will no doubt say, that's good isn't it? About time their wages went down. I don't know, is it so good? What about all the people who are unemployed who are on training courses for the construction industry? I think the government has omitted to tell them that there are no jobs. What about the newly redundant business people who have paid thousands of pounds to train as electricians, plumbers etc thinking that they will have a good living at the end of it all. They are wasting their money, there is no money in it any more. What about the non-academic school kids who leave school each year and say I want to be a brickie, a sparks, a plumber. There is nothing for them. They will swell the dole queues, cause trouble because they have no work. Its already bad and its going to get worse. This country has nothing to offer its workers any more, the real jobs are becoming less and less. Factories are closing down.

Once the housing market picks up it will not get better because then we will have an influx of immigrant workers who will come in and undercut the British workers, which is what has been happening. Again you may say that this is a good thing but many of them are unskilled with forged documents and they find it a lot easier to disappear into the sunset with your hard earned cash than a British worker who has to have documentation etc, CSCS card, Gas Safety etc, etc.

Also tradespeople can't make it on their own now as there is so much competition from others who are unemployed. Its gone the same way as the manufacturing industry. Years ago people used to mock the unions and hate them but now they have forgotten all that and complain about the lack of a manufacturing industry in this country and the lack of jobs. It has now got even worse. You may not have liked the housing boom but the employment of a lot of people rested on it.

Maybe they can all go and work in germany like those funny lads on auf wiedersehen pet, they seemed to have a good time.

thriftybabe

bo_drinker wrote: »

It's like I have said before I am self employed and you are treated like sc um. I am diversifying now a case of having to. The good money has gone for now, maybe for a few years but there will be a shortage of skilled blokes if things ever get better.

I agree with you Bo. A lot of people are leaving the industry as there is not much work. In addition no-one in their right mind is taking on new Apprentices as it costs fortune therefore there will be fewer skills on that front also!

Andy_L

vivatifosi wrote: »

Nobody on here would be complaining about someone in a private-sector office with a good degree earning over £40k with 10 years experience, so I can't understand why there should be a problem if someone has 10+ years experience in the construction trade and is well qualified in their trade and earning the same, especially if they are taking all the risk by being self-employed/ owning a small business.

If you look about the boards people moan about paying lawyers/accountants/architects etc that amount of money as well.

hearts

StevieJ wrote: »

From Wednesday

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Goldman Sachs upgrades Barratt Developments (LSE: BDEV.L - news) to a buy from a neutral, raising its target to 155p from 64p, upgrades Redrow to a neutral from a sell, raising its target to 174p from 80p, has a neutral for Bellway, raising its target to 802p from 550p, a neutral on Bovis Homes, raising its target to 504p from 331p and has a sell for Berkeley Group, raising its target to 899p from 605p.[/FONT]

I cant understand the thinking here. Most of these builders are stuck with loads of overpriced developments and land that they will be very unlikey to clear at even close to their previous prices. I cant speak for any other location, but where I am there a lots of big projects that have stopped or slowed work and unless they discount prices massively I cant see them ever shifting. Unless these builders are going to be buying cheap land and throwing up good houses for better prices I cant see them ever getting back to near their previous highs.

Lifeisbutadream

leveller2911 wrote: »

Just for the record as some may not know.For paying business rates the small business receives NOTHING, no services at all, not even their rubbish removed..

How true is that. We pay £600 per year business rates for the rent of a shed, YES A SHED to store wood and some small machines.

Lifeisbutadream

Entertainer wrote: »

As we established after Tesuhoha's last epic thread (the one where she called us toerags:beer:) the daily rates in the last decade for building workers have been very good. £200 a day plus is common in a variety of trades. Some of it cash in hand. Over the years, I have found it extremely difficult to find reasonable, reliable builders who don't talk in telephone numbers and as a result, it has hugely compromised my ability to get anything done.

What I find astonishing is that now, a few months into a downturn, many of these same people are up the creek. With the money that some of them have earned over many years and the free work they can do on their own houses, they should have paid off their mortgages by now. In this game, you have to put money aside during the good times and many of them haven't done that..

£200 a day isn't wahat the trader will get in his hand though?

Do you know how many £thousands of tools most trademen will have? not to mention the time spent away from your house before or after, preparing paperwork, filling in forms etc. The costs to get too and from the job, the liability insurance etc.

Just for the record, doing work on your own house isnt 'free'.