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Destruction of the Building Industry

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Comments

  • matbe
    matbe Posts: 568 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts
    "All the kitchen firms Wickes B&Q and Mfi"

    These are big firms not tradesmen do you think if they charge you £1500 they pay the person fitting the kitchen all of that?

    They would be lucky to get half that,so we are back to £500-£750 to the tradesman doing the work.

    So I ask again Where is the £200 a day?

    Its getting worse for you: old Indian proverb "when your up to your neck in a hole stop digging"
  • Entertainer
    Entertainer Posts: 617 Forumite
    You pay the kitchen fitter directly, not the firm. Or you can use your own fitter, they are all about the same.

    Therefore, £1000 divided by five equals £200.

    Or for a four day job it would be £250.
  • matbe
    matbe Posts: 568 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts
    I have just done a job (i am an electrician) for a priest who was having a kitchen fitted by b&q I did all the electrical work but the kitchen fitter pestered me for a week for a copy of my certificates and part p registration so that he could get paid from b&q so I dont think that your previous statement that you pay the fitter direct is correct.

    None of the big firms do anything for nothing.

    As to your previous question about rates I charge £18 per hour plus vat nowhere near 200 a day.
  • I too work in the building industry and there is very few tradesmen getting this sort of money if you are paying this sort of money you must be loaded.
  • neil324
    neil324 Posts: 460 Forumite
    Just add about the £200 a day thing. I'm a bricklayer from Birmingham. Before this thing went belly up the average 'day rate' was £120 and the whip was cracked all day.Price work payed £350-£400 per thousand bricks and £1 a 4" block, which if you was fast and good you could do about £700 a week.
  • thriftybabe
    thriftybabe Posts: 689 Forumite
    As we established after Tesuhoha's last epic thread (the one where she called us toerags:beer:) the daily rates in the last decade for building workers have been very good. £200 a day plus is common in a variety of trades. Some of it cash in hand. Over the years, I have found it extremely difficult to find reasonable, reliable builders who don't talk in telephone numbers and as a result, it has hugely compromised my ability to get anything done.

    What I find astonishing is that now, a few months into a downturn, many of these same people are up the creek. With the money that some of them have earned over many years and the free work they can do on their own houses, they should have paid off their mortgages by now. In this game, you have to put money aside during the good times and many of them haven't done that..

    We have paid out various different rates to subcontractors and yes some have made over £200 a day but they are few and far between. Top subcontractors can earn this but the average ones earn just over half of that amount. They have trained for 4 years and there is a lot of skill in certain aspects of their jobs. All our subcontractors are paid by us through the CIS scheme so they do not get paid cash in hand. With alot of our subbies receiving an average wage I think it would be hard for them to pay off their mortgage and any way not everyone thinks the way we do.

    I am the ultimate pessimist and always worried about bad times coming that is why we paid off the mortgage. My OH does not worry like me and if i was the same as him we might be in serious !!!!!! right now with a huge mortgage.

    Prices have dropped off a cliff and subcontractors are now accepting this if they want work. We all have to accept this and get on with it.
  • lynzpower
    lynzpower Posts: 25,311 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    neil324 wrote: »
    Just add about the £200 a day thing. I'm a bricklayer from Birmingham. Before this thing went belly up the average 'day rate' was £120 and the whip was cracked all day.Price work payed £350-£400 per thousand bricks and £1 a 4" block, which if you was fast and good you could do about £700 a week.

    that £120 day rate, do you pay your tax & NI out of that? or is that something you pay ie by being SE?
    :beer: Well aint funny how its the little things in life that mean the most? Not where you live, the car you drive or the price tag on your clothes.
    Theres no dollar sign on piece of mind
    This Ive come to know...
    So if you agree have a drink with me, raise your glasses for a toast :beer:
  • vivatifosi
    vivatifosi Posts: 18,746 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Mortgage-free Glee! PPI Party Pooper
    Many of my family members are in the construction industry in some shape or form. Some of these do earn over £200 per day, but without exception they have worked for many years in a specialist area which requires a lot of qualifications.

    Nobody on here would be complaining about someone in a private-sector office with a good degree earning over £40k with 10 years experience, so I can't understand why there should be a problem if someone has 10+ years experience in the construction trade and is well qualified in their trade and earning the same, especially if they are taking all the risk by being self-employed/ owning a small business.
    Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
  • leveller2911
    leveller2911 Posts: 8,061 Forumite
    edited 12 April 2009 at 11:12AM
    As I have said before, I have a small joinery workshop, City and Guilds qualified and have been self employed for around 22yrs.

    I charge £200-00 a day for my "joinery rate" and about £150-00 a day for fitting rate(its lower because to be honest fitting doors,windows and basic staircases isn't rocket science and most chippies tend to do it).Profit wise I add 20% to all material costs.

    Now out of that £200-00 a day (joinery ) I have to pay out:

    1. Rent on workshop
    2.Electricity
    3.Heating
    4.Business Rates
    5.Rubbish clearance
    6.Workshop insurance
    7.Public Liability Insurance
    8.Van and associated costs
    9.Accountant fees.
    10 .Machinery & tools

    Now add that to the fact that We don't get paid holidays and have to provide a personal pension (frozen and investing in ISA,s and ANTIQUES:D).

    I do know a cpl of plumbers and 1 carpenter who charge £200 a day , however the vast majority of the guys I know charge between £125-£150 per day... In my area SOUTH EAST .........EAST SUSSEX thats fact..

    London and Greater London are NOT an indicator to the rest of the SE, I get so p!ssed off with northerners saying we are all rich and don't know how lucky we are. :rolleyes:
  • leveller2911
    leveller2911 Posts: 8,061 Forumite
    edited 12 April 2009 at 11:39AM
    vivatifosi wrote: »
    Many of my family members are in the construction industry in some shape or form. Some of these do earn over £200 per day, but without exception they have worked for many years in a specialist area which requires a lot of qualifications.

    Nobody on here would be complaining about someone in a private-sector office with a good degree earning over £40k with 10 years experience, so I can't understand why there should be a problem if someone has 10+ years experience in the construction trade and is well qualified in their trade and earning the same, especially if they are taking all the risk by being self-employed/ owning a small business.

    I totally agree, I think it is all down to the fact that it is installed at school that "university" is the "be all and end all" in terms of education.Vocational skills such as Joinery,engineering,pulmbing,electicians,Bricklayers etc are looked down on and as such have for the last 20 yrs or more been 2nd best.Successive governments have invested in the financial services far ,far too much and we are paying for it now.Sure lots of students haven't made the grade at university and have gain stupid degrees which has been at the loss to the education system and the country as a whole.
    Skilled vocations are still frowned upon and to be honest unless this is addressed I can see quality of housebuilding falling and lots of skill used in renovating historic building being totally lost forever.Earnings will go up in the long term as good tradesmen retire the skills will be sort after more and as such rates will rise.

    I suppose for some white collar workers it would "stick in their throats " for manual workers to earn more money.
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