Unpaid Nursing Home fees after death - who is liable?

ratty67

Quick and simple question. I'm sat here ploughing through these statements and putting everything that looks suspect onto a spreadsheet so it's easier to read and track.

There's a Home Insurance Policy that dates way back (2002) so was obviously started by the ladies husband. It also doesn't appear to have been cancelled when she moved out of her house in Nov 2005. Can premiums be claimed back?

Savvy_Sue

ratty67 wrote: »

Quick and simple question. I'm sat here ploughing through these statements and putting everything that looks suspect onto a spreadsheet so it's easier to read and track.

There's a Home Insurance Policy that dates way back (2002) so was obviously started by the ladies husband. It also doesn't appear to have been cancelled when she moved out of her house in Nov 2005. Can premiums be claimed back?

It would be worth asking, presumably there was a DD for this, or renewal letters would have turned up? Although I would think this would be on a 'goodwill' gesture rather than a requirement to do so, unless renewal forms were being sent out and they kept claiming without ever getting one back IYSWIM.

ratty67

If renewal letters were turning up they would have been going to the house the lady lived at I assume. If they were going to the daughters house, why was she renewing it when the (council) house had been given up in Nov '05 and daughter cleared the contents.

I wonder if daughter really does know where the contents are and she was still insuring them?

ratty67

Well todays results were a mixed bunch.

We traced one Home Insurance policy (with the Halifax) and if DH sends them the death certificate along with proof of the dates the lady was in the nursing home they will refund the premiums to the estate. The address was still listed as the ladys last one before she went into the home.

We also found a still active bank account with a small balance relating to the ladys husband. He died over 4 years ago! Now we need his death cert and will to add to hers to obtain the funds. We're going to need the same thing for the shares we found the other day I reckon. We don't even know where his will is/was or who the executor was. It's York you write to for copies isn't it?

Another one is proving difficult to trace (DH is sure it's another home contents policy) and there's what looks like regular life insurance policy premiums being paid with the company saying essentially it's nothing to do with them! They want a copy of Feb's bank statement. What that will prove I have no idea...

The bank (I'm getting tempted to name and shame them now) were no more use than a chocolate fire guard. Wouldn't answer any questions. They haven't got that information. Refer it to the Estates Team. Broken record. We technically could take it to the Fraud Dept but 'broken record' says we'll need to be able to answer the security questions on the account(s) before they'll speak to us. DH reckons it's worth a go!

On the statements there looks like another bank account (£3,000 transferred 2004) and an ISA (£3,000 transferred 2003). Answer from the Estate Team? Put it in writing. Suspicious activity on the account? Put it in writing (it'll be a long letter). What authority did the daughter have over Mum's affairs? No prizes for guessing the answer...

We've had unconfirmed word that the daughter applied to the Court of Protection in Dec 05 to be a Deputy. Now if this is true it proves she didn't get an EPA and also proves she had ZERO right to be touching her Mum's bank accounts before that date.

dzug1

You should be able to ask the OPG if there is an active deputyship or PoA - though there may well be a search fee.

Errata

Ratty - It makes sense to have all communication with the bank in writing. I would guess it will take the bank and the executor quite a time to get to the bottom of all this, so the debts on the estate really can't be paid until it is. Shame really.
Have you managed to track down the lady's social worker yet?

ratty67

dzug1 - DH can do a search of the registers and yes there is a fee, £25 I think.

However given the state of the ladys bank accounts and some thought on the matter we don't believe there was a Deputy in place. I am under the impression from what I've read that there would have to be a Receivers bank account and therefore we should see no evidence of pensions etc going into the deceased accounts. Or maybe I'm getting it wrong.

Errata - DH has phoned Adult services. The lady was assessed twice. Once prior to Nov 2005 and again during 2007 when the care home was expressing concerns over the ladys behaviours. They say they have no record of her actually having a social worker. That doesn't sound correct to me but maybe someone can shed some light on this for me?

DH has also had a partial success with the Finance Dept, the one thing that started this thread in the first place! He managed today to speak to one of the managers, had a very long and helpful conversation in fact.

The upshot is she is going to check with the DWP who was receiving the ladys state pension (it's not going to either account we have records for) and we all suspect it was being paid into the daughters account. We can prove with our paper trail she was transferring the private pension each month from the single acc to the joint one. If the paper trail proves she had all the money then the LA will chase the daughter and leave the estate alone. The manager could see for herself from their records how badly the daughter had dealt with things and she believes the daughter is liable. She's going to liaise with her manager on this matter.

So, we may have a result yet!

Oh, and the funeral directors are getting twitchy. Not at DH, at the daughter

Errata

I hoped that once you'd had a conversation with a manager in the finance dept they'd smell a rat, as have we all ! Excellent news.

Funeral directors like to be paid - might get interesting.

Re. the social worker. If social services have a record of the assessments being carried out, and clearly they have to be able to tell you so, the lady was a 'case' with a caseworker and that's usually a social worker. Might be worth further clarification on who asked for the lady to be assessed the first time, who assessed her, who else was involved, who arranged the local authority funding for the placement etc etc.
HTH - keep up the good work, you're doing amazingly well.

Smiley82

Hi

I'm a new poster on your thread, but read through it with a lot of interest. It is terrible to see such abuse of an elderley person, particularly by a family member.

I just wanted to say how well you and your OH are doing in helping to sort this out and fulfil this person's final wishes. She clearly trusted him as someone she knew would be able to be inpartial and independent and make sure things were distributed the way she intended.

Well done on everything you have achieved so far, it sounds like you are doing a great job.

All the best with the rest of it

sandraroffey

after reading through all of this thread i have to echo everyone elses sentiments, how on earth could the daughter do that?? and its perfectly clear that she has!!

i wouldnt mind betting that there is a hell of a lot more that you dont yet know about, that she has salted away. and a lot more that you wont EVER know about.

but to think that she maybe wouldnt ever be found out?? cant be that bright!!!!

you are doing amazingly well, and keep up the good work. i am sure she is watching over you, helping you along.xxxx