Unpaid Nursing Home fees after death - who is liable?

sandraroffey

surely now, armed with the information you have, its time to involve the police fraud people???

its quite clear what has been going on systematically for a long time.

ratty67

sandraroffey wrote: »

surely now, armed with the information you have, its time to involve the police fraud people???

its quite clear what has been going on systematically for a long time.

Unfortunately as we have now discovered, it isn't that simple.

From April 1st 2007 the customer, or customers representitive has to report to the bank and then it is the BANK'S job to report to the police.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/6513835.stm

The police can do NOTHING until the bank report it. What a ridiculous set up, it's a fraudsters dream scenario.

Hopefully the Royal London will prosecute. They are really unimpressed.

Errata

To be honest Ratty, I wish I'd started a spreadsheet at the start of your thread, things must get a bit lively for your OH keeping up with it all.
You'll get there in the end, and justice will prevail.

ratty67

LOL lively is one word for it....

Let me think. So far for incoming we have -

£8,566 in the Halifax (no fraudulent activity there but deceased was well known in branch)
£2,855 in the NatWest (upwards of £6,000 missing)
£2,015 Phoenix Life policy (daughter attempted to gain but failed)
£1,950 Held by Solicitor A (relates to ISA)
>£100 in the Nationwide
Unknown amount already claimed by daughter through Royal London, possibly around £2,500 judging by premiums
The Prudential are still trying to locate that policy, I suspect it's gone the same way as the one from the Royal London.
134 Centrica shares + almost 4 years worth of uncashed dividend payment cheques.
Neighbour of the deceased says there is another bank account because statements still arrive there and she sends them back.
The council think there may be money to come back (?overpaid council tax maybe)

Definate Outgoings -

£2,000 - funeral
£684 - funeral deposit
£1,700 - LA - in dispute
£1,900 - Solicitor A - in dispute
DH's expenses (can he claim for having his brain cells fried by all of this or for hair replacement therapy cause he's pulled all of his out? Only joking!!).
Any expenses from our solicitor.

Daughter can stuff her claims for flowers, gifts foir the home and newspaper notices where the sun does not shine...

I have done a spreadsheet. It's HUGE!

Errata

I bet it is ! Mr Ratty will get his reward, what goes around comes around. As the darling daughter will discover in due course.

fredsnail

Blooming heck is all I can say that's repeatable on here.

Well done Mr Ratty - keep up the excellent work, and I sincerely hope that the daughter gets more than her just deserts.

fs

ratty67

Mrsmoneypenny thank you! What a brilliant idea of listing everything at the back of your wills. Will make life (for someone) so much easier when the time comes.

I'd love for my parents to do that, to make life simpler. At the moment all I'd be able to do is guess (the house is obvious and I know about one bank account) but they have ISA's and shares etc and neither myself or my brother would know where to start looking.

As you rightly say though, anyone determined enough to help themselves will do it. It's certainly taught us a thing or two. I think making a Lasting Power of Attorney would help matters and should help safeguard someone's finances. Wouldn't stop unscrupulous relatives helping themselves to someones personal possessions though would it?

I have no idea what the ultimate solution would be. I don't think it's possible to completely protect yourself unless of course we all just spend everything so there's nothing left for those of 'dubious' character to get their hands on!

margaretclare

I agree most strongly about listing everything - bank accounts, numbers, insurance policies, addresses, anything that an executor in the future will need to know without riffling through masses of irrelevant paperwork.

ratty67

Mrsmoneypenny wrote: »

When my mum died (she had used this service) it worked out very smoothly (want of a better word). Whereas when my dad died, they hadnt used this service then, it was quite difficult to sort things out and only once my mum died did i find some of his shares etc.

That's one problem DH has encounted. The lady's husband died in Jan 2005 but there are still shares in his name and a bank account still open. That's so far, of course they may be more.

DH's problems have been compounded by the fact the daughter will share NOTHING. Of course it's now apparent she's been evasive because she's had her hand in the pot but it makes the job so much harder.

This is why your list makes so much sense. Having no clue where to start looking means, in short, multiple phone calls and a lot of legwork between banks/building societies to find things. It's put expenses that DH can claim back UP which to my mind is unnecessary. It also means DH seems to be constantly one step behind the daughter.

DH said to me yesterday evening, "if I get asked again to be an executor I'll be telling them to go away"! I told him not to be so daft, he's quite the sleuth He'd make a good detective!

I'm going to put it to DH that we make lists, I think I may also suggest it to my parents as they are well aware of the problems DH has encounted.

monkeyspanner

It seems strange that the banks involved in the Lady's case have seemingly been so easily duped. When we go to withdraw money from one of my daughter's (under age) accounts, which we started and funded, we are always cross questioned about the purpose of the withdrawal (has to be for her benefit). We have to accept a cheque if she is not present even though I am a co-signatory. We had quite a heated discussion in the bank recently because we were told that parents hide money in their childrens accounts to avoid tax. I told them that I objected to being considered to be avoiding tax and that in any event I paid tax on the income on my daughter's account as the source of the funds was myself and my accountantant insisted on declaring the income as if it were mine.

It seems that largely the police have handed over 'minor' fraud matters to the banks and that the banks have to be pressed to take any effective action after the fact because it is so expensive to follow up fraudulent transactions. Banks therefore are now seen as a soft target for fraud and hence the increase in identity theft and credit card fraud. I wouldn't trust any bank to manage their own money never mind mine without the closest supervision.