Redundancy, outsourcing -AAARGH! (long post)

littlefeet_2

I'm going to put all the facts in as clearly as possible, but I apologise in advance if I leave something out as my head is all over the place.

My husband has just been told verbally by his manager that he is going to be made redundant. The company is outsourcing the work of his team to an external UK based company. There has been rumours of the outsourcing for some time so during the last month the team of 3 people has shrunk to just my husband (one person quit to go travelling, the other got a new job) who whilst applying for roles, has not been so lucky.

The company who is taking over the job function does not want to TUPE my husband across, so his existing firm as part of the deal between them is making him redundant and has offered him a 'special deal'. He is to work for 2 months and hand over his knowledge to the new company, and then they will pay him 4 months salary to go away.

As he has been with the firm for over 8 years, his statutory notice period would be 8 weeks anyway (those 2 months of extra employment they are kindly offering ) and they usually only pay 1 week per year of service redundancy so in effect they are offering him 2 months salary not to make waves about the situation.

Based on my skim reading of employment/redundancy law on the internet - what they are actually doing could be classed as unfair dismissal.

Should we try to negotiate a better package with the offer that we won't persue a tribunal?

Pete111

He may have rights under TUPE but only if the outsourcing company is in the EU - If it's for example India, then TUPE probably does not apply. The company has made an offer which is greater than redundancy so they are looking to settle this and avoid any hassle arguing the toss by the looks of it - use this to your advantage.

He probably has a case regarding process if the TUPE/Redundancy consultation was non existant but it will be a long slog to get the cash via tribunal.

As such, I would look at the ACAS site re proper consultation process and pick out the pints where you think the company has fallen short. Use these to go back to the company via a 'without predjudice' conversation (ie. 'I would like to have a conversation with you on a without predjudice basis') and ask for more on the basis that the company has (probably) breached process - importnatly this is currently deemed automatically unfair by the company at tribunal. I would ask for 4 months extra redundacy + the 8 weeks he was due anyway as well as the extra two months work. All redundancy payments up to 30k (as opposed to notice payments) should be paid tax free so you want to concentrate on increasing these.

Acas may also be able to advise further if you give them a call.

littlefeet_2

The outsourcing company is in the EU, it is British owned, and is actually based in the same city as his current job.

Pete111

In which case he should by rights be TUPED across to the new company.

See here http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/DG_10026691

He is however being offered redundacy instead so the company are trying to do right by him rather than TUPE him and have the new (unknown) company make him redundant. As per my previous post, the fact they want to play ball re an enhanced package is encourgaging - your OH just needs to encourage them to enhance it a bit more by pointing out the (assumed) flaws in the process (ie lack of proper TUPE/Redundancy consultation)

littlefeet_2

Pete111 wrote: »

instead so the company are trying to do right by him rather than TUPE

I admire your faith in human nature, but I don't think they are 'doing right' by him.

They are making a financial judgment based on them needing him to do the handover and training to the new company, and also, to stop him raising their 'failings' in the process to a tribunal. They estimate that this is worth 2 months extra salary. Oh yes, they'd also like him to work on 24x7 standby for the 2 months as well, where he can only ever be a maximum 1hr from his place of work and not drink (this was shared between the original 3 team members previously, but since he's a team of 1.....)

*edits* Sorry if I come across as a bit sarky, I know you're trying to help.

savingholmes

Pete is correct in the legal "advice" he has given you - technically he should be TUPE d across. I would contact ACAS for advice - and try and get the best deal you can. I personally would take the money rather than try and fight as long term they may try and find a way to get rid without paying otherwise.... Perhaps I'm just a cynic but I think it usually pays to be cautious

CFC

This is a murky area as by rights, from what you have written, he should be TUPEd across - however it may be better for him as an individual to take an enhanced redundancy package now. I suggest you need specialist advice in these circumstances and that you should talk to ACAS as a starting point.

Poppy9

I assume he isn't in a union.

If he is TUPE across to the new company is there anything to stop them making him redundant?

Also why don't the new company want him if they don't have anyone trained to do the job?

ceridwen

littlefeet wrote: »

They are making a financial judgment based on them needing him to do the handover and training to the new company, and also, to stop him raising their 'failings' in the process to a tribunal. They estimate that this is worth 2 months extra salary. Oh yes, they'd also like him to work on 24x7 standby for the 2 months as well, where he can only ever be a maximum 1hr from his place of work and not drink (this was shared between the original 3 team members previously, but since he's a team of 1.....)

Well - I guess he has two choices as to how to respond to that (ie the 24/7 standby etc bit):
- negotiate a higher pay-off to allow for that fact
- get on with life as per normal - blow the 24/7 cover - and, if they ring him, he cant help the fact that he hadnt realised his phone was broken.;) - after all: what can they do? they couldnt prove that fact one way or the other and whats the worst they could do (well...they've already done THAT..hence your thread).

Robertf

If he can get TUPE'd to the new company, there is nothing to say that the new company won't immediately make him redundant.

If you think the offer is OK, go for that.

getmore4less

A fairly typical normal redundancy situation would be PILON plus redunancy

So with 8 years service that would be 8 of each with the normal 1week per year redunacy offer.

I would expect this for starters,

Then think about what is the extra work offer worth.
How about an opening offer of 2 months at double pay for normal work + on call, Then if called out of hours an hourly rate(based on normal pay) with a min call out period + expences if have to travel. The min callout will depend on the type of work, over the phone fix 1hrs, have to turn up 2hrs.

Restructure this to 2 months work 8 weeks pilon and 2 weeks per year(16weeks) redundancy to keep the tax down, could even try for 3weeks per year.


The other thing here is that the ideal situation is that you impress the new company so much they take you on permenantly if that would be of interest.

They are a potential future employer so important not to burn any bridges.


Definately worth a call to ACAS on the TUPE side of things if you would prefer that.