Redundancy, outsourcing -AAARGH! (long post)

littlefeet_2

Poppy9 wrote: »

I assume he isn't in a union.

If he is TUPE across to the new company is there anything to stop them making him redundant?

Also why don't the new company want him if they don't have anyone trained to do the job?

There's nothing to stop the new company making him redundant after TUPE. Basically they don't want to get involved in that because of the risk of tribunal (e.g. have they chosen fairly) so they have written as part of the outsourcing contract that the original company have to do all the firing.

The new company have a team of people who are qualified in the role in general, but there are specific things regarding the systems and roles that need handover. As they have an existing team doing the same role, they'd have to put them all under threat of redundancy, do the selection criteria, then get rid of BigFeet if they did TUPE followed by redundancy.

He is in a union (unusual in IT) but they seem to be very unavailable at the minute.

lesley1960

Poppy9 wrote: »

I assume he isn't in a union.

If he is TUPE across to the new company is there anything to stop them making him redundant?

Also why don't the new company want him if they don't have anyone trained to do the job?

No ,but he will have been TUPE'd over with his existing contract and terms and conditions and the new employer will have to be seen to go through the correct redundancy proceedures ,with the correct consultancy period and notice

RobertoMoir

littlefeet wrote: »

There's nothing to stop the new company making him redundant after TUPE. Basically they don't want to get involved in that because of the risk of tribunal (e.g. have they chosen fairly) so they have written as part of the outsourcing contract that the original company have to do all the firing.

The new company have a team of people who are qualified in the role in general, but there are specific things regarding the systems and roles that need handover. As they have an existing team doing the same role, they'd have to put them all under threat of redundancy, do the selection criteria, then get rid of BigFeet if they did TUPE followed by redundancy.

He is in a union (unusual in IT) but they seem to be very unavailable at the minute.

In that case, it sounds like a de-facto case of unfair dismissal if you were to go that way, the question is whether or not it is worthwhile. Why are the union unavailable? This is the sort of nonsense he pays his union dues for help with?

Debt_Free_Chick

littlefeet wrote: »

Based on my skim reading of employment/redundancy law on the internet - what they are actually doing could be classed as unfair dismissal.

There's a higher risk to the company of an unfair dismissal claim if they make a position redundant whilst outsourcing. It can be done, but in addition to the usual redundancy considerations, they have to consider TUPE as well - so two lots of "boxes to tick".

It seems to me that they recognise the risk of unfair dismissal, so they're offering a higher payoff in view of this.

Should we try to negotiate a better package with the offer that we won't persue a tribunal?

Your starting point is to consider what a tribunal might offer if your OH won a case for unfair dismissal. The company should be offering at least that amount as a way of saying "look, we're giving you what the tribunal would give you, so there's no point going to tribunal".

He's being offered two months notice (which he has to work) and two months pay as severance. I would expect he would be signing a compromise agreement too.

It's difficult to know what a tribunal might award, but ACAS might advise on this so worth giving them a call.

Four months notice - two worked and two paid - sounds "about right" to me, but call ACAS.

littlefeet_2

We've tried phoning ACAS - after spending 40 minutes on hold they said that we should get some legal advice.

The union aren't calling us back - they keep saying someone from their legal side will give us a ring, but then don't.

Our next stop is to use the legal helpline associated with our home insurance.