Pay Rise Cancelled for NHS staff

twirlypinky

hermanmunster wrote: »

:rotfl: oooo twirlypinky you must have been eavesdropping!!!
seriously though not that bad today , main prob is that 40hrs is rare .. minimum for me is 50+ and often a lot more

I was guessing, I'm sure it's far longer really.

StevieJ

And don't we have a NHS doctor on these boards who gets paid around 20k?

chewmylegoff

Andy_L wrote: »

Do you honestly feel that, e.g., the NHS negotiating ~1.5million individual pay rises every year is more efficient (& thus cheaper) than collective negotiation?

yes, because it wouldn't require a single second of additional resource. in fact it would waste less time, because the apparatus is already there - public sector staff have to complete rigorous appraisals, but the appraisals aren't linked to pay. just get their managers to make a decision on salary (i.e. not individual negotiation, but pay set in response to performance - i.e. real world pay reviews) and drop the whole nonsense with the unions, thus freeing up all the union reps to do the job they are paid to do by their employer, rather than wasting everyone's time with their collective negotiations.

Old_Slaphead

Andy_L wrote: »

How many times do we have to go through this. The Public Sector has higher pay "on average" because (almost) all the low skill/low paid jobs have been contracted out so, despite still being paid out of the public purse they don't count as Public sector workers, thus skewing the average.

I know, I know - different audience this time.

If all public sectors low pay jobs have been shipped why do some keep wining on about low pay in that sector?

You can't quantify what effect it's had but, to compensate, bankers pay over last few years will have upped the private sector average. Now they've gone out of the window - private sector 'averages' will be dropping like a stone!.

Many areas of public sector - teachers, nurses, police etc all get well above average pay now.

Cleaver

StevieJ wrote: »

And don't we have a NHS doctor on these boards who gets paid around 20k?

The 'fresh out of Uni' docs earn a basic wage in the early £20,000s. However, this is for a standard working week. They all work weekends and nights and will get a 40%, 50% or 80% salary supplement (paid as a regular, static payment every month) off their wage. So even the most junior of doctor on a busy rota (busy means working up to 48 hours a week, contracted) will earn £30k to £40k a year.

donaldtramp

Record staff in NHS but managers rising faster than nurses



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/5049144/Record-staff-in-NHS-but-managers-rising-faster-than-nurses.html

A record 1.36m people work in the NHS, new figures show, but the number of managers is rising three times faster than the number of nurses.


By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Last Updated: 1:40PM GMT 25 Mar 2009

A record 1.36m people work in the NHS, new figures show, but the number of managers is rising three times faster than the number of nurses.


The workforce has increased by 2.8 per cent in a year to reach 1,368,200 in September 2008. This is a rise of more than 27 per cent in a decade.
The data from the census by The NHS Information Centre reveals the number of nurses rose by 2.1 per cent while senior managers and managers rose by 9.4 per cent.
As of September there were; 408,200 qualified nurses; 25,700 midwives which is a rise of 2.3 per cent, 34,900 consultants up 3.7 per cent and 49,200 hospital doctors in training which is an increase of 5.1 per cent.
In the same time the number of practice nurses in GP surgeries dropped by 3.6 per cent to reach 22,000, nursing assistants fell six per cent to 100,400 and practice staff excluding nurses dropped 2.2 per cent to 92,400.
Andrew Lansley, Shadow Health Secretary, said: "Yet again funds that are urgently needed for the front line are being swallowed up by Labour's bureaucratic black hole.
"These spiralling management costs show that Labour's repeated pledges to spend NHS money on the things that matter most were just empty rhetoric.
"Now, more than ever, taxpayers are looking to the Government to deliver real value for money to minimise the impact of the recession on the NHS.
"What the NHS needs is good management, not over-management. Unnecessary increases in the number of managers means there is less money to be spent on people who actually care for patients like doctors and nurses."
Ann Keen, Health Minister, said: "The NHS workforce is now at record levels and has increased by almost 300,000 over the last ten years.
"The NHS is the UK's largest employer and is making a significant contribution to tackling unemployment in the current economic downturn."
Cathy Warwick, General Secretary of the Royal College of Midwives, said there needs to be a marked increase in the pace of change if the Government's pledge of an extra 3,400 full-time midwives by 2012 is to be met.

Let the cull begin.
Not only do these unnecessary bureaucratic taxwasters get a salary but also a gold plated, final salary pension topped up and guaranteed by the taxpayer. Yup big brother working it's magic again.
Get the P45s handed out Comrade Brown. Preferably before our country has to go begging to the IMF.

donaldtramp

So much for the benefits we were supposed to get from all that taxpayers money eh?

Productivity falling.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/4373216/National-Health-Service-pay-reforms-have-made-no-difference-to-wage-bill.html

It adds that productivity is continuing to fall in the health service, although the rate has slowed recently to 0.2 per cent in 2006, and that many trusts have not implemented a new framework that defines the skills needed for each job.
Tim Burr, head of the National Audit Office, said: "It was no mean feat transferring virtually all NHS staff on to a new pay system within a very constrained timeframe, and this element of Agenda for Change has been a success. On the other hand, the benefits that should have come with this new simpler system, such as more effective working, have not been wholly achieved."
Mr Leigh said: "It is not clear whether Agenda for Change has achieved any savings to the taxpayer whatsoever. The Department's prediction that the programme would save £1.3 billion is pie in the sky."

donaldtramp

Time Cameron's Tories tackled the real problem – the state, not the rich


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/simonheffer/5045478/Time-Camerons-Tories--tackled-the-real-problem---the-state-not-the-rich.html

The Conservatives must now come to their own understanding of the severe limitations of the state. At one end it is an almost trivial point. Let us say that £2 billion is the price of not having a 45 per cent tax band (and I am sure it is far less than that). Can it really not be found from total public spending of around £650 billion? It is one third of one per cent of the total. It is a tenth of what was wasted on the failed NHS computer system. Any household asked to trim its spending by one-third of one per cent a year (or even by a whole per cent, which would pay for the inheritance tax cut as well, with some change left over) would not even have to blink.

....there has been a party going on in parts of the public sector for the past decade or so for which the taxpayer has had to pick up the bill. It has been entirely socially unproductive.

A lot of public spending is now almost indefensible. Cuts must happen.
After all the talk of changing the law to go after the ex RBS head man. Do you really think public sector pay and pensions are safe when the country is in such a bad way? I think you'll find out very shortly that they are NOT as safe as you think.

StevieJ

Rant,Rant,Rant :rolleyes:

Graham_Devon

donaldtramp wrote: »

Record staff in NHS but managers rising faster than nurses



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/5049144/Record-staff-in-NHS-but-managers-rising-faster-than-nurses.html

Let the cull begin.
Not only do these unnecessary bureaucratic taxwasters get a salary but also a gold plated, final salary pension topped up and guaranteed by the taxpayer. Yup big brother working it's magic again.
Get the P45s handed out Comrade Brown. Preferably before our country has to go begging to the IMF.

A lot of people in the NHS would wholeheartidly agree with what you are saying, i.e. there is massive waste and red tape in the public sector.

But your tone and language used is just offensive and looking to start an argument.

If you are so against all this, I do hope you are voting with your feet, and don't turn the the police / NHS workers when you are in need, and go to them to help you out, often putting their own lives on the line to save a strangers life, i.e. yours.