Pay Rise Cancelled for NHS staff

lunar

the background of doctors and nurses is completly different. I am a nurse who completly disagrees with nurse prescribing as i dont think we have the grounding for it. I do feel strongly about group protocols though. I have been in a situation where a patient was fitting, im pratically begging the sho to prescribe lorazepam/diazepam because i know my patients, he doesnt so wanted to read the notes first (all 3 volumes!). I gave 4mg lorazepam without prescription as my patient would have gone into status otherwise. Im very lucky though as i work with consultants who would have backed me up if something went wrong. we now have a system in place where our new docs get a teaching on this and a few other bits on there first day with us. I can understand how doctors feel whit the pressure of prescribing, i didnt sleep much for a week after i did that!

we definatly need a differing pay scale, otherwise it would put nurses directly under doctors if you can see both professions on the scale. Lets face it there is no way either profession can work without the other. I was also a disgruntled E grade when banding came in and never signed AFC. they basically cut every senior staff nurses pay by £2000 if we signed the contract, which you have to do if you want to move areas or change your hours. It will push many nurses out of the nhs if they deny this years increase, we get a rough deal every bloomin year.

lana22

lunar wrote: »

the background of doctors and nurses is completly different. I am a nurse who completly disagrees with nurse prescribing as i dont think we have the grounding for it. I do feel strongly about group protocols though. I have been in a situation where a patient was fitting, im pratically begging the sho to prescribe lorazepam/diazepam because i know my patients, he doesnt so wanted to read the notes first (all 3 volumes!). I gave 4mg lorazepam without prescription as my patient would have gone into status otherwise. Im very lucky though as i work with consultants who would have backed me up if something went wrong. we now have a system in place where our new docs get a teaching on this and a few other bits on there first day with us. I can understand how doctors feel whit the pressure of prescribing, i didnt sleep much for a week after i did that!

we definatly need a differing pay scale, otherwise it would put nurses directly under doctors if you can see both professions on the scale. Lets face it there is no way either profession can work without the other. I was also a disgruntled E grade when banding came in and never signed AFC. they basically cut every senior staff nurses pay by £2000 if we signed the contract, which you have to do if you want to move areas or change your hours. It will push many nurses out of the nhs if they deny this years increase, we get a rough deal every bloomin year.

I don't think nurses should be able to have a large formulary (because like you say it's a different training we undergo), but paracetamol and peptac should be able to be given (you can't go wrong with paracetamol, really, as long as you give the right dose).

Lots of times nurses have given emergency drugs before I have gotten there. I have been fast bleeped to hypos often, and by the time I get there the nurses have nearly finished giving the IV dextrose, and the patient is waking up. I then prescribe it in retrospect. Occasionally the same happens with gelofusine which critical care outreach nurses put up then I prescribe.
It's nurses like this that we need, not ones who will watch a patient die rather than take a verbal prescription - I once had a nurse refuse to give IV morphine and GTN when a patient was having an MI because the patient didn't have a drug chart yet (just got to the MAU). I had to give the stuff myself rather than let the patient die, which took longer as I'm not used to administering medication, and don't know where the stuff's kept either.

You are right, we couldn't do our jobs without each other. I actually worked as a nursing auxillary for 8 years at school and at med school, and so saw the hard work that the nursing staff put in at all levels. I know some doctors fail to appreciate that.

beccam

Can only say what the consultant head told me (or should I say shouted at me!) when I got hauled for ringing the doc.....that the doc gets paid for taking the call and more if they have to attend. I can only presume thats why other regs outside of the trust would even consider covering a shift for the night.
We check any patients INR who is on warfarin prior to them starting dialysis, it used to be policy that once all the results were back we rang the doc an took an over the phone 'prescription' for what dose the patient was to take an when it was to be rechecked (we keep a lot tighter checks due to risk of bleeding etc)
During the day the same rule applies....get all the results and doc will come down and sign the prescription books, after 5.30pm we aren't allowed to ring the doc, it has to be left for the following morning and staff are then to ring the patient and tell them of any changes.
This was to stop on call docs taking the calls which they would then get paid for (again from consultant).
I can fully understand the reasons but in practice it just doesn't work.....books get lost, patients can't be contacted by phone, staff are too busy too get time to ring back and its just forgotten about.

Anyway, I could go on all day but I won't!!! :-)

If the pay rise (that not only shafted us in the first place, especially closely following the ridiculous AFC!) is not honoured there will be a mass walkout of staff.....then I'll go work agency and earn twice the money for half the work and none of the responsibilty!!

beccam

apologies for the fact my 'D' key is not working and making me look like an idiot!

lana22

beccam wrote: »

Can only say what the consultant head told me (or should I say shouted at me!) when I got hauled for ringing the doc.....that the doc gets paid for taking the call and more if they have to attend. I can only presume thats why other regs outside of the trust would even consider covering a shift for the night.
We check any patients INR who is on warfarin prior to them starting dialysis, it used to be policy that once all the results were back we rang the doc an took an over the phone 'prescription' for what dose the patient was to take an when it was to be rechecked (we keep a lot tighter checks due to risk of bleeding etc)
During the day the same rule applies....get all the results and doc will come down and sign the prescription books, after 5.30pm we aren't allowed to ring the doc, it has to be left for the following morning and staff are then to ring the patient and tell them of any changes.
This was to stop on call docs taking the calls which they would then get paid for (again from consultant).
I can fully understand the reasons but in practice it just doesn't work.....books get lost, patients can't be contacted by phone, staff are too busy too get time to ring back and its just forgotten about.

Anyway, I could go on all day but I won't!!! :-)

If the pay rise (that not only shafted us in the first place, especially closely following the ridiculous AFC!) is not honoured there will be a mass walkout of staff.....then I'll go work agency and earn twice the money for half the work and none of the responsibilty!!

They must be doing the shifts as a locum. Either that or the consultant doesn't get it either (they quite often don't live in the real world).
I can't see why the consultant would care about the SHOs getting paid more either, most consultants are quite keen to ensure their juniors get appropriate banding.
I do think that out-of-hours bleeps need to be rationalised/cut-down though. I have been bleeped lots of times innapropriately in the middle of the night to ask stuff that can wait until morning. It's not that we are sleeping, just that we are covering the whole hospital/lots of wards, and so we can only do the emergency stuff!

macaque_2

Pay Rise Cancelled for NHS staff

Er, not quite!

http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2009/03/27/50047/nhs-managers-pay-rises-three-times-higher-than-average.html

The NHS Boardroom Pay Report 2009, published by the Incomes Data Services (IDS), has revealed that NHS trust directors received an average pay increase of 6.4% in 2008 - compared to the 2.2% pay rise for nurses, and the government's target of 2% for other public sector professions.

niallwallace

I have to wonder about the claim of there being so many Managers in the NHS

My Pay Slip states my Job Description as "Administrative Manager - Information"

My job is not actually Managerial, but because it comes in at AfC Band 6 in the area it is in that's what it maps to.

So do the stats include me as a manager (and many others with job descriptions that land at national descriptions containing the word "Manager") or not?

Old_Slaphead

niallwallace wrote: »

I have to wonder about the claim of there being so many Managers in the NHS

My Pay Slip states my Job Description as "Administrative Manager - Information"

My job is not actually Managerial, but because it comes in at AfC Band 6 in the area it is in that's what it maps to.

So do the stats include me as a manager (and many others with job descriptions that land at national descriptions containing the word "Manager") or not?

Yes, if your job description is Administrative Manager then to the outside world then that's what you are.

What you actually do is another matter - job descriptions for many of us don't always match up to reality.

funguy

Just as a follow on from the above conversation regarding doctors/nurses pay.....a better way is to look at take home pay on an hourly basis!

A recent audit by my friend (who is a local chartered accountant) at her client's 2007/8 accounts showed that on an hourly basis, the highest earners were managers, accountants and dentists. GPs pay were high but on an hourly basis was only 60-70% of the hourly rates of the above group. She reckons that over the next few years GP hourly pay will soon be near enough half of that of dentists and accountants and lawyers!.....she doesnt have any nurses on her books but looking at local going rates, a GP takes home approx 40% more than a community nurse practitioner.....not quite the 5x figure quoted above......

hamstercheeks_2

when is the next election?

cos i want a pay rise:beer: