Pay Rise Cancelled for NHS staff

funguy

The private sector is far more fluid in terms of pay - maybe the NHS should become private so real supply and demand will kick in and pay will balance itself out according to worldwide market forces?

That way you will have a choice of who you see and consequently what they get paid.....

beccam

funguy wrote: »

What about the nurse practitioners earning £50K in the community for 35hr weeks and their private work on top (starting salary as advertised in the GP magazine last month). Or the FY1 doctor earning £26K doing 56hr weeks in your local hospital....2 sides of every story....

Though there you are taking what is advertised in a magazine against what is reality.
Is a FY1 doctor advertised as a 56hr week for £26K? I doubt that community nurse practioner will actually be doing 35hrs/week.
Although if you could tell me where exactly and what exactly this job was I'd be very interested as it must be a very rare one to come by.

To be earning £50K per year would put a nurse on band 8 range B which is higher than my nurse manager in hospital, who is responsible for all the nurses and nursing staff in 3 specialist departments, I'm guessing about 500 staff or more so that is some job you've seen advertised!

cocktail

beccam wrote: »

I quoted the figures to show that this is what the majority of nurses will receive, that a nurse serving (like me for over 10yrs) will reach the top of this band and stay there as chances for a promotion to move into band 6 are very slim.
In a hospital setting you can have specialist nurses like those who are teaching nurses (CPR, infection control etc) on band 6, that is a handful of jobs in a very large hospital.
A doctor after 8yrs of service is highly unlikely to be still earning a junior doctor wage.

I know exactly what GMC membership etc costs for a doctor, I'm not stupid (believe it or not!) but considering NMC fees have virtually tripled over the last few years going from £70 odd for 3yrs to £76 per year and still no promises they won't rise considerably again and Union membership being anywhere between £12 and £20 per month it is valid to point these costs out.
As for uniform, if you're lucky you get a new one every 3 years (yes 3 years!!) we are expected to wear the same few sets of tunic and trousers for 3yrs. I've had to buy numerous new pairs of trousers since uniform issue ones have a tendency to rip, tear and generally fall apart!
I've just had to phone this morning and beg to get new uniforms as I've lost over 4stone in weight and the tunic is more of a tent now.....the nice lady says she can give me one new tunic but since its not 3yrs since my last lot thats all she can do! (great for my bills to wash that one every shift ready for the next day!)

I have stated clearly that I believe doctors (junior ones in particular) are not paid accordingly but you must also see that when I started as a nurse I started working with some JHO's who are now consultants, GP's, Staff grade regs etc etc and yes they are brilliant doctors who deserve this but if they were in a position of being paid less than £6K more than a newly qualified JHO I don't think they would be so happy.

I take a lot of responsibility on my shifts, I am responsible for not only myself but other staff on the ward, I have done further training and specialist practice courses to work in the area I do, I regularly advise doctors who are new to the area, I do procedures that these doctors don't know how to and often don't want to know how to do. They are not junior doctors they are SHO's who are most certainly earning a fair amount more than I am, no it is not about nurses pay vs doctors as of course doctors will rightfully receive a higher wage but that is not to say that the nurses are paid accordingly either.


Anyway all of the above is off topic bottom line is if a payrise is cancelled there will be very few staff left working on the wards!!!

interesting forum. but as more recent posts have clearly said the two professions should not be compared. yes nurses are paid less but its not much different than many other professions . every profession is important. at the end of the day you need to be happy in what you do and not compare and lament on your pay. you knew the pay before you trained in the profession so why moan later?
for the near future its unlikely there will be any major pay rises, if it means that less will opt for these jobs, so be it. there will always be people in the global economy wanting to work for the salary

beccam

cocktail wrote: »

interesting forum. but as more recent posts have clearly said the two professions should not be compared. yes nurses are paid less but its not much different than many other professions . every profession is important. at the end of the day you need to be happy in what you do and not compare and lament on your pay. you knew the pay before you trained in the profession so why moan later?
for the near future its unlikely there will be any major pay rises, if it means that less will opt for these jobs, so be it. there will always be people in the global economy wanting to work for the salary

I did want to add that I love my job for all its stress and failings and wouldn't want any other.
That said nursing has changed immensly in the last 5-10yrs so I didn't know exactly what I would be expected to do now and if I did I may have seriously considered another profession.
I always believed that a nurse worked indepently but often on a doctors insrtuction, more and more of our job is about us making our own assessments and decisions on treatment before even consulting a doctor.

I know I sound like I'm doctor bashing which I really don't mean to at all as like I've said I have great respect for (most of) the doctors I have worked with and they earn every penny of their wage and no I would not want their job at all. That said I doubt many would want my job either!!

funguy

beccam wrote: »

Though there you are taking what is advertised in a magazine against what is reality.
Is a FY1 doctor advertised as a 56hr week for £26K? I doubt that community nurse practioner will actually be doing 35hrs/week.
Although if you could tell me where exactly and what exactly this job was I'd be very interested as it must be a very rare one to come by.

To be earning £50K per year would put a nurse on band 8 range B which is higher than my nurse manager in hospital, who is responsible for all the nurses and nursing staff in 3 specialist departments, I'm guessing about 500 staff or more so that is some job you've seen advertised!

The Community NP job was for the new walk in centres/Darzi clinics in Bradford - more than one job - advertised about 4 weeks ago - contracted 35hrs a week. The FY1 doctor operates on the standard nationally published BMA pay scales. So above is reality - not representative of all doctors and nurses but my point was you can always find specific jobs which dont tell the actual story! There is no arguing nurse and doctor wages are very different but theres no point in saying one is more than the other - everyone knows an approximate salary when they apply for a job - if you dont like it, dont apply and then think you should be paid according to another profession's pay rates.

lana22

beccam wrote: »

Though there you are taking what is advertised in a magazine against what is reality.
Is a FY1 doctor advertised as a 56hr week for £26K? I doubt that community nurse practioner will actually be doing 35hrs/week.
Although if you could tell me where exactly and what exactly this job was I'd be very interested as it must be a very rare one to come by.

To be earning £50K per year would put a nurse on band 8 range B which is higher than my nurse manager in hospital, who is responsible for all the nurses and nursing staff in 3 specialist departments, I'm guessing about 500 staff or more so that is some job you've seen advertised!

Yes, the contracted hours are 56hrs per week. That's before the masses of unofficial overtime put in.

Graham_Devon

lana22 wrote: »

Yes, the contracted hours are 56hrs per week. That's before the masses of unofficial overtime put in.

Ummm, thats illegal.

I very highly doubt you have seen 56 hour posts advertised.

The maximum including overtime is 48 hours per week.

lostinrates

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Ummm, thats illegal.

I very highly doubt you have seen 56 hour posts advertised.

The maximum including overtime is 48 hours per week.

Why is it illegal?

Many people have to opt ot of the EU work hours directive. I can conceive Doctors would be amoung those legal opt outs. Is there another reason?

lana22

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Ummm, thats illegal.

I very highly doubt you have seen 56 hour posts advertised.

The maximum including overtime is 48 hours per week.

It's not illegal! Junior doctors are at present exempt from EWTD, along with others like deep sea divers and off shore oil rig workers.

My rota is a 56 hour one.

http://www.wales.nhs.uk/newsitem.cfm?contentid=11737
http://www.epha.org/a/3007

donaldtramp

Having just watched the CH4 documentary about the NHS and problems due to alcohol/drugs,

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-hospital (you can watch again)
My god the people clogging up our health service due to overuse of alcohol/drugs was simply unbelievable.

I am full of admiration for the people who deal with the low life scum that troop into our hospitals demanding their "entitlement" to treatment after getting pie eyed on £20 worth of cider on Friday/Saturday nights
It was a disgraceful indictment of our society.
This giving everybody everything they want(whether they work or not) has turned a huge part of our society (the sub-class, as the doctor in charge of A&E described them) into a bunch of lazy no good scumbags who just leech from everyone else in society.
Screaming and demanding treatment when good people were trying to save others lives. ABSOLUTE SCUM, the only way to describe these people.
It was truly a disgrace for Britain, the contents of the programme.

There is something far, far wrong with our society when people do nothing, expect everything and have no respect for our society.

Next week is teenage mothers...